Working with French names in Chicago Manual

jsflipper
I am using Zotero with LibreOffice integration to insert footnotes in Chicago Manual of Style format. Some of my footnotes contain references to authors with prepositions in their names, for example.

Henri de Saint-Simon
Robert de Lamennais

I have entered these names in the database as follows: Last name: de Saint-Simon / First name: Henri. This works out well because the preposition "de" is really part of the last name. In my bibliography, de Saint-Simon is listed under S. Under language, I select French in order to ensure that the name in the bibliography is maintained as "Henri de Saint-Simon" instead of "Henri De Saint-Simon."

When I insert a footnote, however, there is a difficulty. Footnotes for Chicago style, as I understand it, should format subsequent references to de Saint-Simon as "De Saint-Simon" because the name comes at the beginning of the sentence. Instead I get:

1. Henri de Saint-Simon....
2. de Saint-Simon.

Is there a way to get "2. De Saint-Simon"? Do you know any ways to work around this difficulty, apart from manually changing each note? I appreciate any advice you might give.
  • RintzeRintze
    Which one of the various Chicago styles are you using? You might be able to solve this by setting the "text-case" attribute to "capitalize-first" on the relevant cs:name-part element.
  • adamsmith
    Shouldn't citeproc auto-capitalize the first word in a sentence thought? Because ideally it would do:
    2. De Saint-Simon
    but
    3. See also de Saint-Simon
    which can't be hard coded via capitalize-first. I thought we already did that type of thing for something, but it's a very vague memory.
  • RintzeRintze
    Maybe this thread is relevant?: http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/20768/ibid-capitalized/?Focus=111543#Comment_111543

    It seems to suggest that note citations should indeed start with a capital letter:

    "If ibid is used in a style without any text-case settings it will be capitalized when it occurs by itself and put in lowercase when [it is preceded by a prefix]"
  • adamsmith
    That's it - we do this for ibid. already, this seem analogous (also for von, van etc.)
  • poirmw
    Have you considered placing the "de" with the first name, i.e., "Henri de"? That appears to work. poirmw
  • adamsmith
    In that case s/he would get "Saint-Simon" instead of "de Saint-Simon" as the last name, which I understand isn't what is wanted/required.
  • jsflipper
    Thank you for your responses. I am using Chicago Manual of Style (full note).

    1. poirmw: I didn't put "de" with the first name because I wanted to have my footnotes follow the French convention in subsequent footnotes (De Saint-Simon,...) and bibliographies (De Saint-Simon, Henri. ...)

    2. Rintze: are you suggesting that the Chicago Style should already be formatting my documents as I am trying to do? Or do I need to figure out how to use the CSL editor?

    Thanks.
  • Gracile
    edited August 16, 2013
    Under language, I select French in order to ensure that the name in the bibliography is maintained as "Henri de Saint-Simon" instead of "Henri De Saint-Simon."
    I don't think the language field changes anything here.

    Rintze is suggesting a change (in the future) in the way CSL handles these cases (or the citeproc-js CSL processor) . But at the moment, I'm afraid you'll have to edit manually each note.

    @Rintze, adamsmith: If this is implemented, I think that should not affect the bibliography.
  • adamsmith
    Well - Rintze's first suggestion (to use capitalize-first on the name-part for the author-short macro) could be implemented using CSL right now - but it's a bit advanced for a first encounter with CSL. It also has the disadvantage I point to in that it's not context sensitive.
  • fbennett
    I'm working on a fix for this. It will be done pretty soon, but I probably won't have access to the release server until early next week.
  • jsflipper
    Thank you all for your help.
  • fbennett
    Had a window of opportunity with network access this morning. I've put up a fresh release of MLZ that incorporates this fix. If you need it in mainstream Zotero, there's a way to do that -- just post back with a query and I'll pick it up when I get back home (in a couple of days).

    In haste,
    Frank
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