So it appears that the problem is a Catch-22 situation: without a willing developer, there's not going to be any funding, and without funding, we can't find a developer for this.
Is it possible to have the Juris-M features (multi-language support, additional fields, abbreviation support etc.) into a plugin? (my question is whether this is possible rather than whether it is feasible: is there a reason why Juris-M is currently a fork of Zotero rather than a plugin?)
The other option I can think of right now is possibly a Bountysource/Kickstarter-type thing to find a developer. Bountysource does seem to have the option for open-ended crowd-sourced funding for open-source projects.
Also, regarding Frank Bennett, iirc he did state in his last email that he was planning to return to Juris-M maintenance at some point but (understandably) couldn't really put a timeline on it. He also did ask for volunteers to join and help out. I'm not sure if anyone did.
Is it possible to have the Juris-M features (multi-language support, additional fields, abbreviation support etc.) into a plugin? (my question is whether this is possible rather than whether it is feasible: is there a reason why Juris-M is currently a fork of Zotero rather than a plugin?)
Yes it's possible and it'd almost certainly be the more sustainable way to go. The reason it's currently a fork is historical, not based on currently available tech for plugins (but obviously changing over from the fork to a plugin is a massive undertaking)
So it appears that the problem is a Catch-22 situation: without a willing developer, there's not going to be any funding, and without funding, we can't find a developer for this.
I mean, who knows, but that's not what I said. I said I doubt this is primarily a funding problem and that, like all the plugins on the plugins page, someone probably has to want to do this, and maintain it long-term. Funding methods would be up to them.
I spoke to the developer recently; he seems committed to keeping Juris-M alive but he is a bit strained. I think if there is interest in trying to support Juris-M long term we can definitely think about ways to support the cause.
I haven't started a crowdfunding page yet - it's completely understandable that the developer is strained, given everything he has told us about the situation. The last I checked there was an associated patreon - https://www.patreon.com/user?u=7258128.
I don't know if crowdfunding avoids the catch-22 situation because it does payments on the basis of estimated cost, but our problem is that there is no developer. If we hit a target, we still need to find someone willing to code it. I also don't know how difficult the task of converting existing code into a plugin is, or what an estimated target to hire a programmer for it could be. So I have not yet created one.
The only plausible option that I have seen is something like https://bountysource.com/ - this allows people to offer money for bounty hunter open source developers to code solutions to the problems posted for the bounty. It seems possible to set a task like "convert juris-m into a plugin compatible with zotero 6" or something to that effect, and have anyone take up the task.
People could pledge as much as they want to or can afford for this, so coders can look at the amount pledged and take it up if it seems sufficient for the task. Presumably this could also be done by the current developer at a later stage for it, if it is not taken up earlier.
If anyone has used this before, they may have suggestions on whether it is worthwhile to try.
As a plugin developer(and also an Aisa language native speaker), I know many guys who have experience with Zotero plugin development and are familiar with non-alphabet language citing.
My friend Lin is the author of a popular plugin Jasminum(https://github.com/l0o0/jasminum/), which provides citation, metadata processing, and custom fields for Chinese papers. It's already an infrastructure for Chinese users.
If you are looking for plugin developers, I would recommend him. We have a non-official team to maintain Zotero documentation, plugins, and CSL(for Chinese).
Our team is looking for any possible sponsor to make our project long live. Welcome to contact me at wyzlshx@foxmail.com.
Just adding another +1 for integrating multilingual bibliography functionality in whatever way works. I work in research support for humanities faculties in a large institution, and while current Zotero functionality is already a godsend, we have so many people who work with multiple languages across bibliographies. (I used Juris-m back in my own researcher days for this reason.)
Just wondering if there's any update here... I didn't realize this had become an issue until I tried to add something to Juris-M today via Chrome.
This is crucial. A large contingent of people working in East Asian history and studies (I'm in Chinese history) rely on Juris-M/Zotero for their work. I'm sure I'm not the only one willing to financially support the development of a plug-in, updates, or whatever is necessary. I was planning to introduce our first-year graduate students in Modern China Studies to Zotero in February, but now I'm not sure it's worthwhile without the Juris-M features.
I think, at this stage, what this needs is somebody just to bite the bullet and lead a crowdfunding campaign and manage a developer to update Juris-M to the new Zotero 6.x base or build this functionality into Zotero via the plug-in route.
But someone (or a group/organisation/consortium) needs to just do it and take ownership of it.
Has anyone directly discussed this yet with the leadership at the RRCHNM? I'm happy to try my own hand in doing so, including working on a crowdfunding campaign if necessary. I'm in Germany, and although I'm not in a position to hire anyone (and we don't have a DH center or digital library at my Uni...), I could also discuss with the CrossAsia (Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin https://crossasia.org/en.html) people. They are phenomenal. I just don't know exactly who/what has already been consulted.
RRCHNM doesn't run Zotero anymore. Its director is now at Luxembourg University and it's run out of a non-profit, the Corporation for Digital Scholarship (as are Omeka and Tropy). dstillman above is the lead developer, so what he says on this should be taken as the official Zotero position (i.e., they don't think they're in a position to work on or supervise this).
As I understand it, Frank Bennett has started working on Juris-M again and is, going by his social media feed, in the process of upgrading it to Zotero 7 (sic), so reaching out to him and seeing what would help him would also be a good idea -- his development track record obviously speaks for itself. I don't know, though, if he has any interest in turning Juris-m into an add-on, which I agree is the more sustainable long-term option.
As for crowdfunding, I'd very much recommend at least talking to a potential developer first: finding people willing and able to work on academic projects isn't easy. It makes sense to look at one of the already active Chinese developers. The other one I'd have thought of is https://github.com/windingwind, who has a number of recent add-on releases, some of them fairly complex (better notes, pdf translate). I haven't worked with him/her, so this isn't an endorsement.
You're right; I'd forgotten about the CDS. I contacted them earlier after posting on here.
Who are the "already active Chinese developers"? Are they people on this thread? I actually know at least one developer at CrossAsia, but I certainly don't want to reach out and involve them if this isn't going to go anywhere. I might contact Frank Bennett though and ask if he has recommendations.
Frank Bennett has started working on Juris-M again and is, going by his social media feed, in the process of upgrading it to Zotero 7 (sic), so reaching out to him and seeing what would help him would also be a good idea
@adamsmith Thanks for the update! This sounds promising. Where can I follow this feed?
Hi @AmandaUCSC, we do actively maintain the Zotero plugins, which have earned more than 6k stars in sum up. Besides the plugins, we also developed many basic facilities for Zotero plugin development, like Zotero-Types, Zotero Plugin Toolkit, and Zotero Plugin Template. We are also positively looking for cooperation with other plugin developers, like the author of Better Bibtex who also contributed to the Zotero Plugin Toolkit repo. You can trust me and my friends' abilities.
We are devoted to making the Zotero community better, so I am willing to help with this thread. The major concern is the funding because in China mainland it is hard to get sponsored by libraries and we do not want to charge users.
Glad to know the new progress of Juris-M. If you have ways to help us get funded, especially sustainable ones, I would be very grateful. I would agree migrating most of the functions of Juris-M to plugin(s) would be the best solution in the long run and am willing to help anytime.
Chiming in to say that I would also absolutely contribute to a crowdfunding effort. I honestly don't know how I would write papers without Juris-M. One option may also be to ask law firms who use it for contributions?
Hi everyone, this sounds great. How about a town hall with Frank B.? I've been in touch with him over the last few months and maybe we can just all meet and come up with a plan @hsiangyu_wong@abigailburman
When the functionality of JM is included in a plugin for Zotero it will be necessary to work the CSL schema, as well. As CSL-M extends among others fields and types, translators in JM partly fill different fields than those for Zotero. I don't think we could have different translators depending on the plugin, so the fields and types of CSL-M would need to be integrated into CSL.
@SixWang You can contact me at wyzlshx@foxmail.com
@gduffner Technically speaking, nothing is impossible as a plugin, ignoring the efforts required when implementing it.
We already have examples of custom fields that can be displayed in both the item table and the info panel, as those built-in ones (title, abstract, author, etc.), in plugins using the toolkit we developed, as I mentioned above. So extra fields are not a problem.
I'm not familiar with the translator system. Hoping it won't be too difficult to implement.
Better BibTeX loads separate translators, so that's possible (fairly easy, as things go). It'd be hard to get translators to save differently across the board, but doesn't Juris-m also only have a couple of separate one?
BBT loads separate translators for sites where other translators exist already?
It's true that there's only a couple of separate translators in Juris-M at the moment but there's a couple more which need to be added. Any source of legal texts potentially benefits from an enhanced translator. Also, the translators for library catalogues could be enhanced for special types of literature (eg. Festschrift and legal commentary).
Possible, yes,but I don't think it's necessary, you should be able to load a separate translator with a lower priority (which would be tried before a translator for the same site with a higher priority). Overwriting a translator will make troubleshooting harder for the zotero team. BBT loads replacement import/export translators for bib(la)tex without overwriting the stock translators for bib(la)tex.
Upgrade Storage
https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/410585/#Comment_410585
https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/410593/#Comment_410593
Is it possible to have the Juris-M features (multi-language support, additional fields, abbreviation support etc.) into a plugin? (my question is whether this is possible rather than whether it is feasible: is there a reason why Juris-M is currently a fork of Zotero rather than a plugin?)
The other option I can think of right now is possibly a Bountysource/Kickstarter-type thing to find a developer. Bountysource does seem to have the option for open-ended crowd-sourced funding for open-source projects.
Also, regarding Frank Bennett, iirc he did state in his last email that he was planning to return to Juris-M maintenance at some point but (understandably) couldn't really put a timeline on it. He also did ask for volunteers to join and help out. I'm not sure if anyone did.
I don't know if crowdfunding avoids the catch-22 situation because it does payments on the basis of estimated cost, but our problem is that there is no developer. If we hit a target, we still need to find someone willing to code it. I also don't know how difficult the task of converting existing code into a plugin is, or what an estimated target to hire a programmer for it could be. So I have not yet created one.
The only plausible option that I have seen is something like https://bountysource.com/ - this allows people to offer money for bounty hunter open source developers to code solutions to the problems posted for the bounty. It seems possible to set a task like "convert juris-m into a plugin compatible with zotero 6" or something to that effect, and have anyone take up the task.
People could pledge as much as they want to or can afford for this, so coders can look at the amount pledged and take it up if it seems sufficient for the task. Presumably this could also be done by the current developer at a later stage for it, if it is not taken up earlier.
If anyone has used this before, they may have suggestions on whether it is worthwhile to try.
My friend Lin is the author of a popular plugin Jasminum(https://github.com/l0o0/jasminum/), which provides citation, metadata processing, and custom fields for Chinese papers. It's already an infrastructure for Chinese users.
If you are looking for plugin developers, I would recommend him. We have a non-official team to maintain Zotero documentation, plugins, and CSL(for Chinese).
Our team is looking for any possible sponsor to make our project long live. Welcome to contact me at wyzlshx@foxmail.com.
Best,
This is crucial. A large contingent of people working in East Asian history and studies (I'm in Chinese history) rely on Juris-M/Zotero for their work. I'm sure I'm not the only one willing to financially support the development of a plug-in, updates, or whatever is necessary. I was planning to introduce our first-year graduate students in Modern China Studies to Zotero in February, but now I'm not sure it's worthwhile without the Juris-M features.
But someone (or a group/organisation/consortium) needs to just do it and take ownership of it.
As I understand it, Frank Bennett has started working on Juris-M again and is, going by his social media feed, in the process of upgrading it to Zotero 7 (sic), so reaching out to him and seeing what would help him would also be a good idea -- his development track record obviously speaks for itself. I don't know, though, if he has any interest in turning Juris-m into an add-on, which I agree is the more sustainable long-term option.
As for crowdfunding, I'd very much recommend at least talking to a potential developer first: finding people willing and able to work on academic projects isn't easy. It makes sense to look at one of the already active Chinese developers. The other one I'd have thought of is https://github.com/windingwind, who has a number of recent add-on releases, some of them fairly complex (better notes, pdf translate). I haven't worked with him/her, so this isn't an endorsement.
Who are the "already active Chinese developers"? Are they people on this thread? I actually know at least one developer at CrossAsia, but I certainly don't want to reach out and involve them if this isn't going to go anywhere. I might contact Frank Bennett though and ask if he has recommendations.
It seems like it is aiming at matching the zotero 7 timeline, since it makes more sense at this point in time than going through zotero 6 first.
We are devoted to making the Zotero community better, so I am willing to help with this thread. The major concern is the funding because in China mainland it is hard to get sponsored by libraries and we do not want to charge users.
Glad to know the new progress of Juris-M. If you have ways to help us get funded, especially sustainable ones, I would be very grateful. I would agree migrating most of the functions of Juris-M to plugin(s) would be the best solution in the long run and am willing to help anytime.
@hsiangyu_wong @abigailburman
You can contact me at wyzlshx@foxmail.com
@gduffner
Technically speaking, nothing is impossible as a plugin, ignoring the efforts required when implementing it.
We already have examples of custom fields that can be displayed in both the item table and the info panel, as those built-in ones (title, abstract, author, etc.), in plugins using the toolkit we developed, as I mentioned above. So extra fields are not a problem.
I'm not familiar with the translator system. Hoping it won't be too difficult to implement.
It's true that there's only a couple of separate translators in Juris-M at the moment but there's a couple more which need to be added. Any source of legal texts potentially benefits from an enhanced translator. Also, the translators for library catalogues could be enhanced for special types of literature (eg. Festschrift and legal commentary).
BBT does not load site translators, only generic import/export translators. The process to load extra site translators is the same however.
Saved