Same author, same year, different publications

zhuangwubin

Hi colleagues, I am a newbie, working on my thesis. Citation style I am using is Harvard-University of Westminster. I have been struggling with Zotero for a few weeks, although I feel that this is the best tool available for citation management.

I am citing different publications from the same author published in the same year. How do I ensure that the suffix of a/b/c appears (for in-text citation)? I don't think it is a good idea to edit manually, as it would prevent the document from automatically updating changes, once I manually edit the in-tent citations.

I am on the newest word, running the newest Zotero, on Mac.

Many thanks

damnation

Editing manually is certainly not the right way.
The citations disambiguation is done by the citation style.

I just tested this out and the style has the right setting and does this correctly.
Test Citation:
(Accadia et al., 2012b, pP03012)
(Accadia et al., 2012a, pP03012)

Can you make sure you have the style correctly selected under "Document Preferences"?
Also, try this in a fresh new document with just the two citations that should disambiguate.

(That it prints out the page for any citation looks like an error, and I'll look into it)

zhuangwubin

Thanks for the prompt reply, damnation. I am trying to edit it via CSL editor. Would be happy if you could provide more info.

1. Yes, one of the main caveats of the available University of Westminster-Harvard CSL is that it automatically generates the page range for in text citation, which is not needed.

2. The other issue is the usage of ; instead of comma to separate two publications for the in-text citation. How can I change it?

zhuangwubin

I forgot these two observations.

3. When there are two or three cited publications within one in-text citation, it should be ordered by year, in ascending order. Only when two items are published within the same year, then the order would be alphabetical.

4. When a cited paragraph is cut (in the layout), with the 1st part on p30 and the 2nd part on p40, I am told it should be cited through in-text citation as (XXX, 1999, p30, p40). How do I edit this into the CSL?

I realise these are all minor edits. Hence, that was why I did the edits directly into the generated citations. I guess this is the wrong approach, as it would prevent the edited in text citations to be updated later. Is that right?

damnation

I am currently completely remaking the style. It is veeery low quality.

You now mentioned errors in the style, but actually nothing regarding your initial problem. Let's figure that out on your side and I´ll take care of the actual style.

(you can edit posts here by hovering over the post and a little gear wheel appears on the right).

zhuangwubin

Thanks damnation for your incisive help. I have been struggling with it for a few weeks, if not months. I am switching from Chicago to Harvard (because my PhD would be from University of Westminster), so I am learning Harvard style while trying to write, and then trying to learn Zotero. I have been working with the library at my university to get a better sense of what is required for Harvard, at least with respect to my university. Let me try to give you a sense.

1. For the first issue, same author, same year, two publications, I have tried multiple times (in the past, even using new word document), to no productive outcome. I am desperate enough to try to use another Harvard style somewhat similar to my university but that is not a good solution, I guess.

In the original CSL, the default would be (Smith, 1999, p22-30), indicating the full page range. If I key in a specific page, it would produce (Smith, 1999, p22-30: 23). Rightfully, as I am told, it should be (Smith, 1999, p23). In truth, if it is obvious enough, the page range needs not be indicated.

damnation

You're mixing a lot of issues here.

You'll have your Westminster style shortly, wait for it.
In the meantime, my initial questions are still open that should help us troubleshoot this. ;)

zhuangwubin

I have tested again. The Westminster-Harvard CSL on Zotero does not generate a/b/c for the same author, same year, two publications issue. I have a screen capture but I don't know how to upload here.

damnation

I had two very specific questions:
1. Can you make sure you have the style correctly selected under "Document Preferences"?
2. Also, try this in a fresh new document with just the two citations that should disambiguate.

You can upload images to Dropbox or any photo upload tool and share the links here.

zhuangwubin

Yes, I tried. Please take a look.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LGvA3M2V0BdpurUG2OnLB9t-aN7vBnlj/view?usp=sharing

zhuangwubin

I do not know if this would be helpful.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18dKeDyYtr6_mAKPSQjO3x4iEdiJ7pmFB/view?usp=sharing

damnation

Let's start with the new style I just finished reworking.
Right click, save as, install in Zotero either via double click or via the menu:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/citation-style-language/styles/d40bb97c589e1da436870c5998db6201a35cd6ee/harvard-university-of-westminster.csl

zhuangwubin

Let me try. Thanks.

zhuangwubin

Dear damnation, I did a quick check. Most things seem to have been resolved. One minor issue would be the ordering of multiple references. The priority would be to order by year, ascending. If there are two items in the same year, then the ordering would be alphabetical. I assume it would be ascending as well.

damnation

Ah. Hadn't looked into that yet.
Where do you see that in the guidelines? I can't find anything.

zhuangwubin

Our guide provided by the university is quite loose and does not cover a lot of issues. I asked the librarians and they don't have a standard reply to most issues. I think they wish NOT to be liable to give a standard answer for the enquires.

For instance, the person whom I corresponded suggested not using pp. for page range, suggesting instead, p2-5.

With the stated issue of ordering, that was what I was told in private email consultation with the librarian.

damnation

Generally, their guidelines online are not the worst.
Referring to this: https://libguides.westminster.ac.uk/c.php?g=666541&p=4733712
and this: https://www.westminster.ac.uk/sites/default/public-files/general-documents/Referencing Your Work booklet_06.1.pdf

Using "p2-5" is correct as per their guidelines. So we'll stick with that.

https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/raw/f11dbe4f5f8cc2cf000235f1fca73fe7fdc45a3b/harvard-university-of-westminster.csl

zhuangwubin

Do we leave the ordering for now? You seem to know my university's citation style well!

zhuangwubin

I have uploaded your new edit. Let me try. Thanks.

zhuangwubin

Hi damnation, I double checked. The new csl still generates pp instead of p for page range.

damnation

That's fixed now: https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/raw/f5889207142d4d6985f3d41be6ef5093a5f33547/harvard-university-of-westminster.csl

zhuangwubin

thanks again for the prompt response and hard work.

zhuangwubin

Hi damnation, in some cases, I noticed the generated in-text citation puts b ahead of a, generating, for instance, Albano, 1981b, 1981a. Why is that?

zhuangwubin

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HW4tpMwkz7DrIVzCJoa8sRDws4J-d86i/view?usp=sharing

Screen capture for your reference. I note that for multiple publications from the same author cited within one in-text citation, you use comma rather than ; to separate the entries. Is that right?

Many thanks again

damnation

That's based on how the citations are sorted in the bibliography "V" comes after "C".

(Accadia et al., 2012b, pP03012)
(Accadia et al., 2012a, pP03012)

Accadia, T. et al. (2012a). Copy: Virgo: a laser interferometer to detect gravitational waves. Journal of Instrumentation, 7 (03), P03012.
Accadia, T. et al. (2012b). Virgo: a laser interferometer to detect gravitational waves. Journal of Instrumentation, 7 (03), P03012.


Again, where in the guidelines do you see that it should be a ";" and not ","?

(Please edit your posts and don't make double posts)

zhuangwubin

Hi damnation, I am also not sure whether it should be ; instead of comma.

As for the issue of (Albano, 1981b, 1981a), I am not sure I understand your point regarding the bibliography. I have not generated any bibliography yet, except to key in the entries on my Zotero library. Are you saying that this (Albano, 1981b, 1981a) is perfectly fine?

Let me offer you a screen shot of my Zotero library, especially the part concerning the entries for Albano.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-6zsnq-cb99H9evnAqEkRpsicf9g4U1/view?usp=sharing

damnation

You don't need the bibliography in your document, in order for the style (that is already applied) to do its job.

zhuangwubin

In short, (Albano, 1981b, 1981a) is perfectly fine?

damnation

Yes.
Guidelines just say they need to be disambiguated.
No further information is given how the bibliography should be sorted in terms of citations from the same authors (which would be the settings that would change it from b>a to a>b).

zhuangwubin

many thanks

zhuangwubin

hi damnation, is it possible to tweak your updated CSL for the in-text citation of three authors? Right now, the default is to show et al, which is only recommended for citing a work contributed by more than 3 authors.

The recommended in-text citation would be (Loh, Koh and Thomson, 2013, p1–21).

See: https://libguides.westminster.ac.uk/referencing/examples