Group library and pdf access

ftv88

Hi,

If I make a group library that I share with a friend, and add papers with full text from my zotero folder in dropbox, will he also get access to the PDF's just by clicking on them in zotero standalone? What if he adds files with PDF's, will they sync to my zotero folder on dropbox somehow?

Thank you.

Fredrik

adamsmith

Probably not, but what is your Zotero folder on Dropbox? In other words, how are the files there connected to Zotero and synced?

ftv88

My Zotfile are synced so that when pdf's come to my download folder they are moved to my Zotero folder on drobox. That way it is easy to share a dropbox link to others, use my library with several devices and also an extra safety.

But I wonder if my colleague will get access to the PDF's in my group, and if he adds studies with PDF, will I get access to his PDF's ?

adamsmith

No, links to local files are not copied to (and not possible to create) in groups, sorry -- your case is a perfect example why not, by the way: There's no way Zotero could provide access to files that it doesn't control to other users of the group who may or may not have access to your Dropbox but whose Dropbox folder is definitely in a location Zotero isn't aware of.

ftv88

When I copy files from my library to a group the PDF's works just fine and are still in dropbox if I right click file and click "show file".

So there is no way groups will work where all users get's access to PDF's?

adamsmith

So there is no way groups will work where all users get's access to PDF's?

Yes of course. You just have to use Zotero file storage for them.

ftv88

Like this?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5z3n8eejmzcbyl3/file storage.JPG?dl=0

If all have this on, then all will get access to all pdf's regardless of who added the files?

adamsmith

The files need to actually be stored in Zotero though. If you have used ZotFile to turn them into links, having file storage on won't help.

Stored PDFs have PDF icons. Linked PDFs have little link/chain icons over them

ftv88

Ok, so how can I do this then? Any chance to store them both in Zotero and Zotfile?

That is odd as all my PDFs are stored in my zotero folder in dropbox (which is on my computer as I have my whole dropbox folder downloaded and in sync), some PDFs have icons, some have link/chains.

ftv88

My data directory location is also the same dropbox folder on my computer.

adamsmith

My data directory location is also the same dropbox folder on my computer.

yeah, that's a terrible idea. You'll corrupt your database irreparably (and Zotero should warn you that's the case).

I don't think you can easily mix your Dropbox setup with sharing files in groups, no.

ftv88

I've had it like this for several years.

So what do I need for making it best for groups, use data directory location as a local folder on my computer then it is fine?

ftv88

The reason for dropbox is because I use Zotero standalone on 2 computers. When I earlier added studies with PDF files one on computer they didn't show up on the other and vice versa. Is that possible to do? That is Why I used dropbox so both computers use the same data directory location, which has worked great for years.

bwiernik

The proper way to use Zotero on 2 computers is to use Zotero sync:
https://zotero.org/support/sync

That page includes several ways to sync files, including a safe way to sync files via Dropbox. For technical reasons, group libraries currently require Zotero storage.

ftv88

I have unlimited zotero storage. But PDF's wont follow when I copy.

Gurdas_Sandhu

"your case is a perfect example why not, by the way: There's no way Zotero could provide access to files that it doesn't control to other users of the group who may or may not have access to your Dropbox but whose Dropbox folder is definitely in a location Zotero isn't aware of."

I disagree. This is exactly why links feature needs to come to groups. Group members can set the base folder for this particular group to be whatever Dropbox folder is being shared by group members. Whether the folder is shared correctly or not is the group admin's job. A bad job by admin can break the links for users, but that's also true when someone uses a linked file system in MyLibrary across multiple computers.
ps: This needs base folder setup to be available at each group level.

DrCamTurner

Thanks for your comments @adamsmith and @gurdas, both very helpful as I begin transitioning myself and my organization to Zotero. In comparing Zotero's two alternative file management strategies (copies VS links), it seems critical to consider how Groups will be used.

@gurdas ' suggestion:

Group members can set the base folder for this particular group to be whatever Dropbox folder is being shared by group members.

seems like it would work, as long as all group members use the same 3rd-party cloud storage/sync tool (e.g., Dropbox) and the "base folder" is public or permissions are granted to every group member. I can see the value for a small/local group that's already agreed to use one cloud tool, but it otherwise seems limiting to require all group members to use 3 tools (Zotero+Zotfile+Dropbox for links) rather than one (Zotero for copies). I welcome your thoughts however, since I'm new to Zotero.

However, Zotero's inability to let users of the copies strategy store local files in their preferred directory seems unnecessary. Mendeley's "watched folder" approach let users maintain the widespread practice of keeping an organized directory of PDFs while letting reference management software handle all the file syncing and sharing. Perhaps it's necessary because the organized directory would need the exact same structure (i.e., subdirectories) on every machine the files sync to?

Related discussion by @frucker and @bwiernik here: https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/70045/linked-attachments-and-groups

scandiclevelander

Just trying to bump this up again -- apologies if it's been addressed elsewhere. One of my main reasons for loving Zotero is the option to store my PDFs in my own cloud drive folder (I use OneDrive). I also thought that the shared group libraries would also be stored there but recently discovered differently. I really like having direct access to the PDF files. I realize that everyone in the group would need to have shared access to the same OneDrive folder, which is not a problem at all. Is there any movement on making this an option?

mkb_pljv

No idea if it helps here, but I'll pile on and say that we have this exact same need for group file storage. My org already has unlimited Google Drive storage where everyone is used to storing files. Each of us can individually use it for our own linked PDF storage with Zotero, but once we want to have a group to share among a few of us, we suddenly have to use Zotero storage. That's a huge disadvantage. We would love to see this feature.

pgesteira

Same. Been using Zotero for a long time and had started to work in projects with more people than myself. I wished to maintain a Google Drive folder synced with my group library, where it would replicate the same folder structure with the PDFs inside of it (there's a couple of elder professors in this project and they never heard about zotero). Looks like this can't be possible.

ngreiner

+1 for being able to use linked file attachments for Group Library items, and to set the Linked Attachment Base Directory for each Group Library individually.

chemenway

+1 for the capability.