Ibid. in a sequence of cites


I am editing the International Organization style (a footnote style), but my question is rather general in the application of Ibid. I am using CSL 1.0 with the web-based zotero plug-in for firefox and the Office Word add-in to insert my citations;

When I insert a sequence of cites (so e.g. 2 books) of which the first is the same as my previous citation, Zotero uses Ibid. for the first site and then adds the other cites. Example:
1) Addis 2008.
2) Ibid.; Wigginton 1996.
Piece of code defining this:
<if position="ibid-with-locator">
<group delimiter=", ">
<text term="ibid"/>
<text macro="point-locators-subsequent"/>
<else-if position="ibid">
<text term="ibid"/>

Is there any way I could change this? That it just puts the full citation whenever it is in a sequence citation of more than one cite?

  • no, you can't change that behavior.
    Which style doesn't want that?
  • You can disable ibid completely, but you can't discriminate between ibid referring to a sole reference to the same source in the preceding citation and a preceding reference to the same source within the same note (if that's the thrust of the question).
  • Hi,
    Thanks for the comments.
    fbennet: If I understand your sentence right, I think I ment it different. I want to make a distinction between
    1) ibid in a single source footnote referring to a sole reference to the same source in the preceding citation
    2) ibid as the first cite in a footnote that contains multiple sources
    In that last case, I don't want it to use Ibid, but write the whole reference.
  • Ah, okay, got it. The processor can't do that.
  • I'm still interested what this is for?
  • For my PhD. So it's just a personal taste (we can choose whatever style we like). I do have some chapters with a lot of references in the footnotes, and I think it's more clear if Ibid is only used for single citations. But as I already said, I think it's a matter of taste, so I just do it another way (not sure yet if I will delete the whole Ibid think or just leave it like this)...
  • note that if the _first_ citation is a multiple citation, you don't get ibid for the second one (this is a typical style requirement, e.g. Chicago Manual).
  • Yes, which I completely agree, since otherwise it wouldn't be clear to which reference you are referring with the Ibid. I think the same is true when it is in the reversing order...
  • Are there any changes?

    I work with an author-date-citation and this leads to unclear references in two cases.

    Case 1:
    I quote two sources, e.g. "lore ipsum (Smith 2018, Meier 2019)". Afterwards I will quote the last source from the previous citation. In the example Meier 2019. This appears as "dolor sit amet (ibid)". More reasonable would be "dolor sit amet (Meier 2019)".

    Case 2:
    I quote a source, e.g. "dolor sit amet (Meier 2019)". Afterwards I want to quote a source with several sources and the previously quoted one should be put in first place. This leads to "lore ipsum (ibid, Smith 2018)". More reasonable would be "lore ipsum (Meier 2019, Smith 2018)".

    If there is a solution I would be glad about a hint.

    Thank you in advance
    Joshua Weber
  • I'm actually surprised by Case 1; that shouldn't be the case I think. Which style?

    But generally we don't spend much time optimizing ibid for in-text citations. I'm guessing this is for a German citation style? Pretty much no one outside of the German-speaking world uses this and it should probably go away there, too.
  • Dear adamsmith

    I was somehow waiting for a rss-feed-like e-Mail. I don't know exactly why... :-)

    Thank you for your answer. I am talking about these style and yes, it is a german one: https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/hochschule-fur-soziale-arbeit-fhnw.csl

    Can you reproduce the issue? Maybe there is an issue within the style?

    Joshua Weber
  • edited January 6, 2020
    Dear adamsmith

    I was wondering if you have taken a look at the style/issue in the meantime? That would be great.

    Thank you in advance
    Joshua Weber
  • Maybe someone else can help or knows a person who can?
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