Zotero 7: Attachment title behavior with linked files

dstillman Zotero Team
This discussion was created from comments split from: Z7 - File names NOT changing.
  • nacho.keso
    Hi, first of: thanks a lot for everything you guys do. I still use Zotero all of the time and it keeps improving, which is great. I hope I understood everything above and in the link you've shared correctly. Please, disregard anything I say below if it is already part of a planned update or if its simply not helpful.

    I have all my (pdf, ebook, image, web pages) files in discrete folders in my laptop (one folder for pdf's and ebooks, one for images, one for web page (sub)folders) and I use the 'linked file' option each time I download a file. For some parent items I have multiple files (one original file, some edited, some with OCR, etc). I have found this to be the best way to keep Zotero light and organized without multiple duplicates in the library (yes, I've tried using duplicates for each edited file but it was a logistical nightmare). This method allows me to share and backup actual files while (only) synchronizing the (very light) library data to the cloud.
    In my case I have always had to change the name of the file manually. I'm unsure if this was the result of some preference change I made in the past (+-5 years ago), but this was my preferred option anyway. It allowed me to first edit the parent item/citation to the file system I use and only then to change the actual file name in the folders with all the files. It allowed me to append a suffix such as "OCR" or "COMMENTED" to a version of an actual file and to change its name directly from Zotero (by ticking the box that I believe has disappeared with Z7).
    Overall, this method also does away with the 'itunes' kind of behaviour when using Add attachment > File or "Automatically attach and rename associated PDF's ..." or "Automatically take snapshots of web pages ..." whereby the resulting library structure had little in common with the actual structure of the "storage" folder and eventually I had no oversight of where files were or how heavy they were.

    With Z7 each time I link a file and rename it with parent item data 1. the file is indeed renamed, but 2. I get inconsistent behaviour from the label that the attachment gets in the actual library. Mostly, the attachment label changes to "PDF", "ebook", but sometimes the label indeed doesn't change, and I still see the name of the original downloaded file. I find this weird, since I always first download the file to the specific folder (pdf with pdf's, jpg with images, etc) and only then "Add attachment > linked file" to link it to the parent item in the zotero library + "Rename file" to change the actual file name to match the citation style of the parent item.
    Currently, I'm dealing with this by manually changing the name of the actual file in the folder in my PC, and by manually changing the label in Zotero to match the actual file name.

    This is a minor nuisance, but it would of course be easier if it were possible to revert to the previous behaviour.

    By all means, any advice on how to better manage my library is always welcome.

    Thanks again for all the amazing work you guys do.
    Zotero for the win!
    Toro
  • dstillman Zotero Team
    edited February 13, 2025
    I get inconsistent behaviour from the label that the attachment gets in the actual library. Mostly, the attachment label changes to "PDF", "ebook", but sometimes the label indeed doesn't change, and I still see the name of the original downloaded file.
    The first file you add is supposed to be set to "PDF"/etc., but there was a bug specifically with linked files that caused the first two files to be titled that way. That's fixed now in the latest Zotero beta, and the fix will be included in Zotero 7.1.

    As for the rest, we have additional changes coming that might help, including continuous renaming and a renaming variable for the attachment title. Essentially, you'll be able to specify a format like "use the attachment metadata, unless the attachment title doesn't include 'PDF', in which case append the title to the end of the metadata within parentheses", and then you could simply type "OCR" into the attachment title field and have the file automatically renamed to "Smith - 2004 - This is My Book (OCR).pdf", while still getting the benefits of simpler, less redundant titles in the items list.
  • nacho.keso
    Thank you so much for your prompt reply! Looking forward to coming updates :)
  • dstillman Zotero Team
    We've fixed the incorrect "PDF" on the second child linked file in Zotero 7.0.12.
  • nacho.keso
    Thanks!
  • michaa7
    > The first file you add is supposed to be set to "PDF"/etc

    Why on earth is it "*SUPPOSED*" to be set ...

    It is nondescript, meaningless, impeding .

    I am working in a big part with partial PDF-scanns of Books. I want to see the titel or better the name of the file I use for this scann. And it simply is not a good idea to use a generic TITEL anyway.

    The rational it being SUPPOSED to be a generic non-titel may be to avoid redundancy. Ok, if your priority is avoiding redundancy so make it configurable so you can have it non redundent and others may prefere descreptiveness.

    And a may be convincing reason for not giving a hoot about redundency: Take what ever book you have on your bookshelf, you will read the Titel on the cover .... and then go to page 3 or 5 (most of the time) and read. It's the titel again, and no publishing house prints "book" instead of the titel. And no one cries "redundant, redundant, ...

    So please, there is no sane reason for an apended file to be SUPPOSED TO BE generic other than not recognizing how ugly and useless it is.

    So yes, my request may sound a little tense, but I now spent some time to edit again and again each and every new appended file to its NAME because I get skin rash each time I see PDF as a braindead title in my zotero library.

    Thanks

    Michael Hatzold
  • dstillman Zotero Team
    @michaa7: Explained here: https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/attachment_title_vs_filename

    Also from that page:
    While we recommend the default behavior in order to avoid redundant information in the items list, if you really prefer to view filenames instead of titles, you can enable “Show attachment filenames in the items list” option in the General pane of the settings.
  • adamsmith
    https://www.zotero.org/support/forum_guidelines#etiquette

    In this case, you could have saved yourself a lot of grief with a simple question instead of a rant: Zotero enabled displaying the filename instead of the attachment title in the middle panel several months back (it's a checkbox under the fourth heading in the General tab of the preferences).
  • michaa7
    Yes, u are right, but this non redundancy reasoning in any case shows no taste for sane priorities. Look at your books.

    But thanks for pointing to the preferences. Leastwise something ...
  • tim820
    If you use the Zotmoov plugin to handle linked files, it will set the displayed title to match the file name by default when adding new linked files (the same behaviour used by the now-defunct Zotfile, that many linked file users were accustomed to for years).

    Even if an attachment file is *already* in its linked-files folder ( the specified 'Move to' directory), right-clicking on a PDF and selecting Zotmoov: Move Selected to Directory will still rename the title and filename to your chosen Zotero renaming format. You can of course also rename the title/filename manually in the right pane.

    Also, since Zotero now changes filename/title when metadata is updated, if you don't want that it can be turned off via the following Config Editor preference:
    extensions.zotero.autoRenameFiles.onMetadataChange
  • michaa7
    edited today at 6:54pm
    Still, or again, "show file name" is enabled, but I only see PDF as the name of the attachement file. Please fix this.

    One can't even c&p the titel from the library list. Then please make a copy-name-to attachment title context menue option.

    Debian 9.0.6 (64-bit)

  • dstillman Zotero Team
    @michaa7: We'd want to see a screenshot from Troubleshooting Mode (Help → "Restart in Troubleshooting Mode…”) showing the items list and the right-hand pane with an attachment selected. This has been an option since Zotero 8 in January, and we haven't had any other reports of it not working.
  • michaa7
    Ok, it is NOT a linked file, but an attached file. The problem is as described. Wanna still a screenshot?
  • dstillman Zotero Team
    edited 4 hours ago
    The option doesn't have anything to do with stored vs. linked files.
  • michaa7
    screenshot
    https://s3.amazonaws.com/zotero.org/images/forums/u16688703/sdbz30jskyquk1ntyc0q.png
  • dstillman Zotero Team
    I'm not sure what that's meant to show?

    The option is "Show attachment filenames in the items list". You blurred out the entire items list, so you don't seem to be reporting anything relevant to that option. If you're talking about the "PDF" at the top of the item pane, yes, that's there because attachments continue to have separate titles regardless of this setting.

    Re: the edit to your early comment, you can copy the filename from the Filename field in the item pane, like any other field. I'm not sure if you blanked out the entire item pane in your screenshot or if something is broken for you.
  • michaa7
    If you're talking about the "PDF" at the top of the item pane, yes, that's there because attachments continue to have separate titles regardless of this setting. <- Why for Chrissake is this so? Don't answer redundancy! Look at whichever book. There is the title on the cover and then there is the exact same titel on one of the first sides of the frontmatter.
    But here in this case, there is a titel of the autors choice and a PDF FILENAME OF MY CHOICE!!!

    And it ist nothing else but patronizing in claiming you own the philosopher's stone of how to organize a personal software library! Showing the filename is not the same as showing the book title it belongs to.
  • dstillman Zotero Team
    because attachments continue to have separate titles regardless of this setting. <- Why for Chrissake is this so?
    Because the setting is literally about the items list? Attachment titles continue to have information that's not duplicated anywhere else, such as about the provenance of some automatically added files. Zotero has stored that data for two decades, and we're not just going to get rid of it.

    With that setting enabled, you wouldn't even see the attachment title unless you clicked the items-list row that's already showing you the filename. And as I've said, the item pane already includes a copyable Filename field.

    A reasonable person might post a polite request to show the filename in the item pane header when that setting is enabled — no one has mentioned that since we added the setting. Since you've instead chosen to rant obnoxiously at us, and have already ignored our guidelines once, further posts of yours will be moderated. You're welcome to engage politely and productively in these forums like everyone else. Posts like this will just be deleted.
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