Citing a video in CMOS

kadiddle
edited 4 days ago
I'm having difficulty getting Zotero to produce a video bibliography entry in CMOS with all the info I want included:

Title: Einstein on the beach
Director: Robert Wilson
Composer: Philip Glass
Choreographer: Lucinda Childs
(and the usual publication & other info)

Composer and choreographer can be added in the Extra field; director, it turns out, can be listed either in a dropdown box or in the Extra field, it makes no difference. But here's the output from Zotero:

Glass, Phillip. Einstein on the Beach. Produced by Pomegranate Arts and Théâtre du Châtelet, Paris. Directed by Robert Wilson. Opus Arte, 2016. Blu-Ray and DVD, 264 minutes.

As you can see, the composer takes over, which makes no sense for this video (or almost any video). If I delete the composer and choreographer, what I get is this:

Wilson, Robert, dir. Einstein on the Beach: An Opera in Four Acts. Produced by Pomegranate Arts and Théâtre du Châtelet, Paris. Opus Arte, 2016. Blu-Ray and DVD, 264 minutes.

It's acceptable since the work is mostly associated with Wilson, but not optimal: Glass's contribution is important, and Childs seldom gets credit at all. I could add the composer and choreographer as "directors," since there's no other suitable option in the dropdown, but it doesn't make sense. Is there any way I can get everyone listed properly, or should I live with having the director alone?
  • dunning
    That's an interesting case. The composer always takes priority to cover the example of a filmed performance in CMOS18 14.165 (plus similar examples in APA and MHRA). Might it work if you add your other names as generic contributors?
  • kadiddle
    Listing Glass and Childs as "contributors" results in:

    Wilson, Robert, dir. Einstein on the Beach: An Opera in Four Acts. Produced by Pomegranate Arts and Théâtre du Châtelet, Paris. With Philip Glass and Lucinda Childs. Opus Arte, 2016. Blu-Ray and DVD, 264 minutes.

    "With" implies actors, so it's not a good solution. (Speaking as a former librarian.) Listing Wilson as simply a contributor also adds him as a "with."

    The only example I see in 14.165 that matches the situation you mention is the Handel performance, which is an unusual case that I think Zotero would handle through the Extra field. People don't cite "Vertigo" under Bernard Herrmann rather than Alfred Hitchcock (unless they're writing about film composers, perhaps). I think this needs to be fixed.

    I also notice that the first two examples in 14.165 cite by title rather than creator, which would be fine for me, but Zotero could only produce it if putting Director in the Extra field wasn't the same as using the dropdown box.
  • adamsmith
    I don't think this is fixable. CMOS is clear throughout that, for more unusual item types, you adjust the principle creator in a citation based on what matters in a given context, i.e. even the same work can be cited in different ways (e.g., I'd expect someone writing a book on Glass to cite a recording of the original performance of Einstein on the Beach under his name.)

    At some level of precision you'll have to just manually cite or adjust.
  • kadiddle
    edited 3 days ago
    I think then the question is whether "Vertigo" is an unusual type. It's unusual in comparison with books and articles, but among videorecordings, I'd say it isn't: director virtually always counts more than composer. The situation with a book about a film composer could be handled by sacrificing the director, but I can't judge whether that would be tolerable; my guess is that it would be less than optimal, along the same lines as my case. But there's an audio recording item type too, which might serve the bill.

    But you're quite right that media can be cited in various ways to fit the context. In principle Zotero could have multiple video item types, though I doubt the developers would be keen on it; still, I suspect videos are cited more than instant messages and maps, which have their own item types. I wish Zotero had a "freeform" citation type!
  • adamsmith
    No, I think what's unusual is having a composer in the metadata for Vertigo at all.
  • kadiddle
    edited 3 days ago
    That's a fair point. Although it does undercut the usefulness of the Extra field. Another way to look at a reference in a book about a film composer is that it's closer to a citation to a recording or performance, but in any case I'll have to live with what I can get.

    I just tested a couple things, and bafflingly, my output from Zotero just changed, and not in a good way. The note citation is now giving the only the title (in the shortened notes version of CMOS; in the regular notes version as the main info, with Wilson appearing later as "directed by") -- yet the bib entry is still under Wilson. Wilson isn't suppressed in the note. I can override the mismatch by adding him as a prefix, but I have no clue why it's doing that.
  • dunning
    @adamsmith Possibly the composer could display as a primary creator only with audio recordings and musical scores?
  • adamsmith
    Are you suggesting this for the style or the Zotero mapping? I'm pretty sure they won't want to mess with the latter
  • dunning
    I do mean the style's treatment of composer. Right now it is treating a composer's name as the primary author in all circumstances. It seems to me that the CMOS18 14.165 example of a film cited under a composer's name works about as well as an audio recording as anything:

    https://www.zotero.org/groups/2205533/items/KZIU8QNU

    Hence I am minded to demote composer to being primary only with song or musical_score, which would help to address the problem in this thread.
  • kadiddle
    I think that will do the trick.
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