Implementation of the Chicago Manual of Style, 18th edition

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  • It literally says in your excerpt "if there are more than six, list only the first three, followed by “et al.”" in the bibliography and says that notes without bibliography should follow the bibliography rules for et al
  • edited 3 days ago
    Per 13.35, citations after the first full note are shortened as one name, just the last name, followed by et al. Three names aren't an option.
  • edited 3 days ago
    Et Al after three authors for works with more than 6 is implied by "as in the bibliography" in 13.23 -- you're welcome to ask CMOS about this, they do answer emails, but I promise you adunning's interpretation is what the Manual intends. It would make no sense to list more authors in notes than in a bibliography, not would the Manual establish a third different et al rule.
  • Huh. We read that very differently! I just queried a scholarly editors group about how to read that. I'll let you know. (I may end up writing CMoS for clarification)
  • Adam, the scholarly editors group is equally divided on how to read that. I've submitted the question to the Chicago Q&A. I'll report back when and if they respond.
  • @rudyleon Thanks for following up on that. The Chicago editors typically respond to queries within a month. The styles follow official guidance as closely as the software allows; I’m happy to make adjustments if my interpretation is inaccurate.
  • edited yesterday at 10:52am
    I've recently been using CMOS styles to write a paper, for which I use Zettlr for the Markdown and Zotero (via BetterBibTeX) to handle the referencing. One can then export the markdown file via Zettlr's internal pandoc to generate a new format; I generally send it to Word, since that is what is requested. Zettlr allows you to use the Zotero style files to do the rendering.

    I recently swapped from 17 to 18 and noticed that with the change to 18 (and the reverse-engineering of 17 mentioned in these fora), that some of the forms of referencing have stopped working, whereas they worked perfectly in the previous version (of 17).

    Specifically, the text used to indicate a chapter in a ref (i.e., "chap.") no longer appears to work, whereas "part", "figure", "Table", etc all seem to.

    I find this to be so in most of the styles I've tried: notes; notes-bibliography; shortened-notes-bibliography; etc.

    Example: the reference written in markdown in Zettlr as

    [@kocs19io, chap. 7]

    would when exported render, correctly, under the older CMOS 17 style as

    (Kocs 2019, chap. 7)

    However, under CMOS 18 and the revised 17, it now renders as

    (Kocs 2019, 7).

    Whereas, something like

    [@matlock10si, chap. 1; @matlock24lbla, part III]

    renders as

    (Matlock 2010, 1; 2024, pt. III).

    So, I am wondering: is the new CMOS deprecating the "chap." designator, or is there possibly a typo/bug in the style files that handle the "chapter" referencing?

    I ask because using, e.g., Harvard Cite Them Right style, does insert the "chap." text in the Matlock citation above.

    Anyone else notice this behaviour?
  • @jvoros Does it fix the problem if you remove the line <else-if locator="chapter line verse" match="any"/> from the CSL file?
  • edited yesterday at 6:58am
    @dunning
    Tried it in shortened-notes-bibliography and it worked!
    I just commented out the line.
  • This is an issue in pandoc:

    https://github.com/jgm/citeproc/issues/166

    The idea here is to meet the requirement in Chicago (CMOS 14.143–54), and many other styles, for complex locators that do not require a label. I wonder however whether the numeric detection is too likely to create undesirable results.
  • edited today at 6:16am
    I have a lot of references for the paper, and I have noticed that while most are rendered in title capitalisation, as expected, a handful are done in sentence caps.

    This is odd, because I store all refs in sentence caps, with the APA caveat of a capital after the colon in a compound title (i.e., main title and a subtitle; a throw back to olden times... I think CMOS does do this now). I've double-checked this, and when I change the citation of one ref which only has a title to another with a subtitle (i.e., a later paperback edition), the title caps work as expected.

    However, the sentence caps also occurs for a ref which has a compound title, so is there perhaps another pandoc obscurity that causes this?
  • @jvoros -- could you post the metadata for one or two of the items in question either here (in <code> tags) or on a github gist or so and link to them? Easier to just look at them then to go through all the possibilities.
  • @jvoros I suspect that you're encountering the difference in pandoc versus citeproc-js (the citation processor in Zotero) in the interpretation of languages. Pandoc follows the CSL specification strictly, which states that the value of language should be an ISO 639-1 (= IETF) language tag, i.e. en for English. Zotero interprets this more loosely.

    Thus, if you have an item with English or eng as the Language, it will be rendered in title case in Zotero but sentence case in pandoc. Changing the language to en will fix the problem.
  • edited 1 hour ago
    @dunning
    Yep, that fixed all of them! Amazing. I wish this forum supported Markdown, then I could a :tada: party popper emoji to say thanks!

    I also had one item for which the language was listed as "multiple" (it is a letter to the SecGen of the UN). It also rendered in sentence instead of title. Removing the text from the language entry fixed that too. All the anomalies I mentioned above are now gone... BUT, there are some new ones (of course ;-). Next post...
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