Citing Music Score in Zotero

So I'm a music postgraduate student and was just wondering what people's best systems were for citing musical scores in Zotero. I've seen a number of different forum entries from a few years back but was just wondering what the state of play is like now?
  • edited May 13, 2020
    There is a `musical_score` item type available in the Citation Style Language that Zotero uses to format citations, but this doesn't have a corresponding item type in Zotero yet.

    You can tell Zotero to cite an item as a musical score by entering this in Extra:
    Type: musical_score

    You can similarly add a composer on another line in Extra:
    Composer: Last || First I.

    If the citation style you are using is written to accommodate musical scores and composers, this will be picked up and cited accordingly.
  • I am citing a BOOK of scores in an article. It is the collection of all the scores of an album by Francis Cabrel, Les beaux dégâts, so the book is also called Les beaux dégâts, and it contains a dozen scores of individual songs.

    I am citing the book in a style derived from the template Chicago (author-date), but in my bibliography, the title appears as "Les beaux dégâts".

    Shouldn't it yield Les beaux dégâts in italics instead, since it has no container?

    From what I find here, it seems to me that this should be the case:

    https://libguides.depauw.edu/c.php?g=73436&p=472284
  • Yes, the style should probably be updated. It currently doesn’t handle musical scores specifically, so all formatting is just generic.
  • I don't understand. Even if it's generic, why does it create quotation marks when there is no container?
  • Chicago doesn’t follow a simple container/no-container rule for title formatting. It’s based on specific item types. For example, a book republished in an anthology is still formatted in italics instead of in quotes, even if it has a container. In the style as written, quotes is the default behavior because most item types use quotes.
  • edited October 28, 2020
    Does that mean that, in this case, I should actually avoid using "Type: musical_score" in the EXTRA section so that it defaults to my item type, i.e. "book"?

    Or better still

    The csl in my own derived style named "La main de Thot" reads:

    <else-if type="bill book graphic legislation motion_picture song" match="any">
    <text variable="title" text-case="title" font-style="italic"/>
    <group prefix=" (" suffix=")" delimiter=" ">
    <text term="version"/>
    <text variable="version"/>
    </group>
    </else-if>


    I've just changed it to:

    <else-if type="bill book graphic legislation motion_picture musical_score song" match="any">
    <text variable="title" text-case="title" font-style="italic"/>
    <group prefix=" (" suffix=")" delimiter=" ">
    <text term="version"/>
    <text variable="version"/>
    </group>
    </else-if>


    Apparently, it seems to work.

    It's better, isn't it? Or do you think that might cause trouble elsewhere?
  • Sorry, the csl does not appear.

    I was referring to line 187. I added musical-score

    https://pastebin.pl/view/65d83dd4

  • @bwiernik

    Hello, my question is not about scores but about songs (= audio recordings). However, I'm continuing the thread of THIS conversation, because that's where you were telling me that "Chicago doesn’t follow a simple container/no-container rule for title formatting."

    There is something I don't understand. I have just checked my bibliography again for my article, and have suddenly realised that all the titles of my songs were in italics, even though they are in containers. Since the style I have created is based on the Chicago style, here is my question:

    When I look up online how it works to cite a song in Chicago, it tells me that, when it has a container, it should be between quotation marks, but when I use Zotero style preview, only MLA 8th has quotation marks for my "audio recording" items in containers. Chicago shows italics.

    Is it something I'm doing wrong? I mean, are there different types of audio recordings? Should I mention a sub-type of audio recording named "song" or something?
  • It’s just likely that the Chicago CSL style wasn’t written with audio recordings potentially having container titles in mind. It probably needs to be updated. @adamsmith
  • OK.

    I'm not going to mess with the initial Chicago style, but I'm trying to see if I can change my style, at least. In the macro named "substitute-title", I read:

    if type="article-magazine article-newspaper review review-book" match="any">


    I was thinking I could add "song" to the other types, just after "review-book", and then, in the extra field, for all the songs I have in Zotero, add "Type: song".

    However, I have not found how to add SEVERAL pieces of information in the Extra field. I already have "Container title: Blood on the Tracks", for example.
    How can I also add "Type: song". What sort of punctuation do I have to put between the two elements of information?
  • However, I have not found how to add SEVERAL pieces of information in the Extra field. I already have "Container title: Blood on the Tracks", for example.
    How can I also add "Type: song". What sort of punctuation do I have to put between the two elements of information?
    They just need to be on new lines, so:
    Container title: Blood on the Tracks
    Type: song
  • I have tried that, but Zotero doesn't accept it. The second line just disappears as soon it is refreshed.

    I tried adding "audio-recording" to that "if" line, but it doesn't seem to be anything. I thought this would cause Zotero to treat it in the same way it treats the other items, i.e. text macro="container-title"
  • I will be much clearer if I use the paste bin, I guess:

    https://pastebin.com/i9i33BUy

    This is the line I'm talking about.
  • audio-recording isn't a CSL type, so that won't do anything. Zotero's audioRecording is CSL's song.

    How exactly are you trying the multiline entry on Extra and what do you mean by "Refresh"?
  • I type "return" and then type "Type: song". So it reads

    Container title: Blood on the Tracks
    Type: song

    By "refresh", I mean either when I try to sync with Zotero.org (green arrow) OR when I refresh in the Zotero style editor
  • So, I'm testing a few things. It seems that "Type: song" simply does not exist in Zotero... maybe because, as you said, "Zotero's audioRecording is CSL's song".

    I've tried it in an extra field for another audio recording that does not have a container. The extra field will accept "Type: musical_score", for example, but not "Type: song"
  • I've just tried "Type: broadcast". It doesn't seem to work either. Zotero deletes it.
  • Huh -- Zotero seems to remove all types that actually exist in CSL.
    @dstillman -- that's not on purpose is it?
    Just to be clear, steps to reproduce are:
    - include type: song in the Extra field (e.g. of a journal article item),
    - move out of the field
    - click the sync button
    The type line disappear. It remains when the type isn't a valid CSL type?
  • That’s a new behavior.
  • @bwiernik It would be interesting to do why it does that.

    On the other hand, from what I can judge, it seems to me that even if I managed to add "Type: song", it wouldn't solve my problem.

    I have just tried with another item I have, which is a "Book" item with "Type:musical_score" in the extra field.
    I have added a container title in it, so the field reads:

    Container title: Aufray chante Dylan
    Type: musical_score

    In the Zotero style editor, in the csl, I have added "musical_score" to the list of item types that use the text macro "container-title" (see paste bin, line ), but my item still yields italics (for both container and contained) instead of quotation marks:

    CABREL, Francis, 2004, Les beaux dégâts, Aufray chante Dylan, Paris, Chandelle.

    https://pastebin.com/9KWL3mJV

    I really don't understand how to do this properly.
  • What are you actually citing? What is the actual source? I am having a hard time following. Please say what you are actually citing, not what workarounds you’re using.
  • OK, so my question was about songs, i.e. items that I have in Zotero as "audio recordings". When I cite them in MLA for my thesis, Zotero yields the song name between quotation marks, and the container in italics. Perfect !

    BUT here, I have to cite them in a different style, for an article, and the style is close to Chicago, so I "created" this style, named "La main de Thot", which is a variation on Chicago:

    https://pastebin.com/gTBjPScE

    However, it does not yield quotation marks for the title of the song, it puts both the title AND the container in italics. That is what I am trying to correct.
    Normally, from what I read on the web, in Chicago, songs should be cited between quotation marks too, as in MLA, with the container in italics.
  • edited November 26, 2020
    @dstillman -- that's not on purpose is it?
    Just to be clear, steps to reproduce are:
    - include type: song in the Extra field (e.g. of a journal article item),
    - move out of the field
    - click the sync button
    The type line disappear. It remains when the type isn't a valid CSL type?
    This was a bug, and I have a fix ready, but just to note, if you have a Journal Article item with a Pages field and enter "Type: song" and sync, the item will be converted to an Audio Recording item and the Pages field, which is no longer valid for the item type, will be moved to the Extra field.

    (This code is all part of the preparations for sync compatibility through type/field changes, where values in Extra are migrated to real fields when available. Ideally I suppose this change would happen immediately on save rather than on sync, which is weird and unexpected, but regular saving doesn't currently go through this code path.)
  • @dstillman Thank you.

    So, if I understand well, "Type: song" is kind of subtype of "audio Recording" and should only be used for that type of items, right?

    I'm not sure what you mean by "I have a fix ready". Does it mean that you are planning to fix it in the days to come?

    Should I wait for you to fix it and then use the method I suggested above, i.e. indicate "Type: song" for all my audio recordings that are individual songs with album containers, and then make sure that the CSL I am using takes into consideration the "song" type when determining whether to use italics or quotation marks to cite it?
  • So, if I understand well, "Type: song" is kind of subtype of "audio Recording" and should only be used for that type of items, right?
    No. Type: song maps an item to "song" in CSL.

    That means that it allows you to have any other item type treated as if it were an audio recording, including something like book section which has a container (so functions essentially like a "song" on an "album".

    Note, though, that you have to read the various things we write here as a whole: This will not change anything in the existing Chicago style. You'd still need to modify that to have songs with containers treated differently from those without.
  • if you have a Journal Article item with a Pages field and enter "Type: song" and sync, the item will be converted to an Audio Recording item and the Pages field, which is no longer valid for the item type, will be moved to the Extra field.
    OK, that makes sense. I was just using any random example to replicate the issue. Presumably "pages" don't make a lot of sense for an audio recording in the first place.
  • @adamsmith

    OK. You wrote earlier that "audio-recording isn't a CSL type, so that won't do anything. Zotero's audioRecording is CSL's song."

    so... if I understand well, the CSL automatically recognise ANY audio recording as a song, right?
    In that case, I suppose there is no use of writing "Type: song" in the extra field of an audio recording item.

    Is that right?

    And yes, I do understand that there is something to write in a Chicago CSL (or in my "la main de Thot" CSL, which is approximately the same).
    I still haven't understood where I should write it, but if at least I could be sure that all my audio recording items are already treated as "song", this will help.
  • I suppose there is no use of writing "Type: song" in the extra field of an audio recording item.
    correct -- that wouldn't do anything and I think that would actually still get removed on sync even after the bug here is fixed.
  • Understood. Thank you.

    Tomorrow, I will look into the CSL and TRY to see which line I must change exactly in order for my songs to be cited between quotation marks...
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