I am citing a BOOK of scores in an article. It is the collection of all the scores of an album by Francis Cabrel, Les beaux dégâts, so the book is also called Les beaux dégâts, and it contains a dozen scores of individual songs.

I am citing the book in a style derived from the template Chicago (author-date), but in my bibliography, the title appears as "Les beaux dégâts".

Shouldn't it yield Les beaux dégâts in italics instead, since it has no container?

From what I find here, it seems to me that this should be the case:

https://libguides.depauw.edu/c.php?g=73436&p=472284

I don't understand. Even if it's generic, why does it create quotation marks when there is no container?

Does that mean that, in this case, I should actually avoid using "Type: musical_score" in the EXTRA section so that it defaults to my item type, i.e. "book"?

Or better still

The csl in my own derived style named "La main de Thot" reads:

<else-if type="bill book graphic legislation motion_picture song" match="any">
<text variable="title" text-case="title" font-style="italic"/>
<group prefix=" (" suffix=")" delimiter=" ">
<text term="version"/>
<text variable="version"/>
</group>
</else-if>

I've just changed it to:

<else-if type="bill book graphic legislation motion_picture musical_score song" match="any">
<text variable="title" text-case="title" font-style="italic"/>
<group prefix=" (" suffix=")" delimiter=" ">
<text term="version"/>
<text variable="version"/>
</group>
</else-if>

Apparently, it seems to work.

It's better, isn't it? Or do you think that might cause trouble elsewhere?

@bwiernik

Hello, my question is not about scores but about songs (= audio recordings). However, I'm continuing the thread of THIS conversation, because that's where you were telling me that "Chicago doesn’t follow a simple container/no-container rule for title formatting."

There is something I don't understand. I have just checked my bibliography again for my article, and have suddenly realised that all the titles of my songs were in italics, even though they are in containers. Since the style I have created is based on the Chicago style, here is my question:

When I look up online how it works to cite a song in Chicago, it tells me that, when it has a container, it should be between quotation marks, but when I use Zotero style preview, only MLA 8th has quotation marks for my "audio recording" items in containers. Chicago shows italics.

Is it something I'm doing wrong? I mean, are there different types of audio recordings? Should I mention a sub-type of audio recording named "song" or something?

OK.

I'm not going to mess with the initial Chicago style, but I'm trying to see if I can change my style, at least. In the macro named "substitute-title", I read:

if type="article-magazine article-newspaper review review-book" match="any">


I was thinking I could add "song" to the other types, just after "review-book", and then, in the extra field, for all the songs I have in Zotero, add "Type: song".

However, I have not found how to add SEVERAL pieces of information in the Extra field. I already have "Container title: Blood on the Tracks", for example.
How can I also add "Type: song". What sort of punctuation do I have to put between the two elements of information?

I have tried that, but Zotero doesn't accept it. The second line just disappears as soon it is refreshed.

I tried adding "audio-recording" to that "if" line, but it doesn't seem to be anything. I thought this would cause Zotero to treat it in the same way it treats the other items, i.e. text macro="container-title"

audio-recording isn't a CSL type, so that won't do anything. Zotero's audioRecording is CSL's song.

How exactly are you trying the multiline entry on Extra and what do you mean by "Refresh"?

So, I'm testing a few things. It seems that "Type: song" simply does not exist in Zotero... maybe because, as you said, "Zotero's audioRecording is CSL's song".

I've tried it in an extra field for another audio recording that does not have a container. The extra field will accept "Type: musical_score", for example, but not "Type: song"

Huh -- Zotero seems to remove all types that actually exist in CSL.
@dstillman -- that's not on purpose is it?
Just to be clear, steps to reproduce are:
- include type: song in the Extra field (e.g. of a journal article item),
- move out of the field
- click the sync button
The type line disappear. It remains when the type isn't a valid CSL type?

@bwiernik It would be interesting to do why it does that.

On the other hand, from what I can judge, it seems to me that even if I managed to add "Type: song", it wouldn't solve my problem.

I have just tried with another item I have, which is a "Book" item with "Type:musical_score" in the extra field.
I have added a container title in it, so the field reads:

Container title: Aufray chante Dylan
Type: musical_score

In the Zotero style editor, in the csl, I have added "musical_score" to the list of item types that use the text macro "container-title" (see paste bin, line ), but my item still yields italics (for both container and contained) instead of quotation marks:

CABREL, Francis, 2004, Les beaux dégâts, Aufray chante Dylan, Paris, Chandelle.

https://pastebin.com/9KWL3mJV

I really don't understand how to do this properly.

OK, so my question was about songs, i.e. items that I have in Zotero as "audio recordings". When I cite them in MLA for my thesis, Zotero yields the song name between quotation marks, and the container in italics. Perfect !

BUT here, I have to cite them in a different style, for an article, and the style is close to Chicago, so I "created" this style, named "La main de Thot", which is a variation on Chicago:

https://pastebin.com/gTBjPScE

However, it does not yield quotation marks for the title of the song, it puts both the title AND the container in italics. That is what I am trying to correct.
Normally, from what I read on the web, in Chicago, songs should be cited between quotation marks too, as in MLA, with the container in italics.

@dstillman Thank you.

So, if I understand well, "Type: song" is kind of subtype of "audio Recording" and should only be used for that type of items, right?

I'm not sure what you mean by "I have a fix ready". Does it mean that you are planning to fix it in the days to come?

Should I wait for you to fix it and then use the method I suggested above, i.e. indicate "Type: song" for all my audio recordings that are individual songs with album containers, and then make sure that the CSL I am using takes into consideration the "song" type when determining whether to use italics or quotation marks to cite it?

if you have a Journal Article item with a Pages field and enter "Type: song" and sync, the item will be converted to an Audio Recording item and the Pages field, which is no longer valid for the item type, will be moved to the Extra field.

OK, that makes sense. I was just using any random example to replicate the issue. Presumably "pages" don't make a lot of sense for an audio recording in the first place.

I suppose there is no use of writing "Type: song" in the extra field of an audio recording item.

correct -- that wouldn't do anything and I think that would actually still get removed on sync even after the bug here is fixed.