Display 'foreign' groups in local zotero desktop?

kimnavin
I'm a Zotero newbie and may have missed this but-
Persons A and B both have there own local Zotero libraries. Person A sets up a group to collaborate with B. Is it possible to show this 'foreign' group under the Group Libraries in person B's Zotero instance so they could drag items from their My Library to the group library?
  • dstillman
    Sure — that's the main purpose of groups. Person A just needs to invite Person B to the group, and Person B needs to accept the invitation and make sure they've synced their local Zotero (which should happen automatically by default).
  • Grode
    In my case a private group that I was invited to does not show up in my local zotero under groups. I can at the moment only see it on the web. So far it is empty so there is nothing much to see, but can that be the reason why is doesn't show locally?
  • dstillman
    @Grode: See Changes Not Syncing.
  • Grode
    Aaarrgghhh zotero4 no longer syncing... seem to ended 19 days ago. Sad story.
  • bwiernik
    You should update to Zotero 5?
  • Grode
    Well, it is not just so. Updates that are indeed updates I am happy to do, but updates like Windows Vista or something similar I tend to stay away from. Or to put it different: Updates that at the same time is downdates is not my style. Would you change your girlfriend to somebody that both have advantages but certainly also the opposit.
    In the case of Zotero so far the habits of version 4 is strong. I did try to update back last year some time and that turned out to be kind of a one night stand - at least I returned to v4 very fast.
  • bwiernik
    edited August 31, 2018
    In general, Zotero 5 is faster, more stable, and has a much expanded feature set than Zotero 4. If you are concerned about the loss of the deep Firefox integration, that was entirely outside of Zotero’s control, and versions are Firefox that can run Zotero for Firefox are no longer supported by Mozilla or safe to use. Since Zotero 5’s release, there have been a lot of new features added, particularly a menu to select a collection to save to without leaving the browser. I suggest you check out Zotero 5 again. In any event, we really can’t provide much support for Zotero 4 any longer.
  • Grode
    Firefox was latest updated June 28th and still support Zotero (I am on the ESR channel) and the sync stopped after Aug 11th. I understand the fact that there is no support for Zotero 4, but why has Zotero stopped the sync? Is there any technicality that made this step necessary?

  • bwiernik
    The long-planned changes to Zotero item types and fields, among other planned internal database structure changes, requires sync for the Zotero 4 client to be stopped.
  • dstillman
    edited August 31, 2018
    Firefox was latest updated June 28th
    And that's the last planned release of Firefox 52 ESR. Official support for Firefox 52 ESR ends on September 5th, so everyone using it should by now have upgraded to Firefox 60 ESR, which has been out since May. Continuing to use an unsupported browser is dangerous, and it wouldn't make sense for us to hold back further development for everyone to continue to support a browser that no one should be using any longer.

    Zotero 5 has been out for over a year, and we kept 4.0 sync online much longer than we planned to ensure that we could offer an equivalent or better experience in most ways, which we've now done. You should try it again.
  • Grode
    Yes, as I said: Sad story.

    It is actually worse than Corel 18 (or maybe 17) breaking backwards compability so you cannot read older files but at least there it is possible to keep v16 next to v18 so you can use the older version when needed. And I have to admit I still run machines on windows 3.1 as I also have one on win 98SE, and some on XP. Is it dangerous? Well not as much as they say. So far I have had no attacks on any of those since they were left behind by Microsoft just like I didn't have on my Novell server when I ran that. And honestly I rather have my Firefox or Netscape attacked than being hit by a car.

    So much for that - due to my students - I probably have to change version number on Zotero and you have to upgrade https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/changes_not_syncing with a line saying: Still on zotero v.4
  • dstillman
    edited September 1, 2018
    I imagine you're not doing much internet browsing on Windows 3.1. If you're using outdated software to connect to the internet, then yes, it's dangerous, both to you and the general public. Unpatched computers are exploited all the time, both to steal or encrypt data and to be used in massive botnots that attack websites. Most people don't even know when their computers are used for the latter.

    If you don't connect your computers to the internet, you can run whatever you like. If you're online, running unpatched software is deeply irresponsible. It's not something to be proud of.
  • DWL-SDCA
    edited September 2, 2018
    It is one thing for a commercial (and costly) program developer to force its users to upgrade to a new paid version every year or two however Zotero is free.

    The 5.0x versions fix many problems and minor annoyances that existed in the 4th version. The Zotero 5 versions are faster and more stable than version 4. There are several very useful new features in version 5. These new features are very important to me and to many Zotero users. I've used Zotero for more than 10 years. The developers are very careful about only updating the software when necessary (as is the case with the current situation) or to add frequently requested features. Some software (I agree with your Corel example) does this to trap its users into an upgrade path. That isn't the case with Zotero upgrades. Zotero is very careful about upgrades not breaking things -- Zotero 5 was in beta for almost a year before the final was released. I believe that the Zotero developers are among the most honest, careful, and caring people in the software industry.
  • Grode
    edited September 6, 2018
    But on the other hand z5 is a downgrade in certain ways (or was at least last when I tried it out after beta had ended).
    It is not that I don't understand reasons to develop (I my self also wish for certain changes also in Zotero), it is just more difficult to see why it breaks the possiblity to see and participate in groups as the online should be able to handle input from a z4 and the local z4 should be able to handle input from a z5 database.

    The arguments "insecurities..." in Firefox I don't buy (usually there is a security vulnerability found the same day a version is released). What if I choose to use Pale moon or similar projects instead? There I can find some of the former facilities from Firefox that they have left behind (or fork'ed off from). What if I choose to protect my Firefox in a non standard way but more secure?

    My major issue is that z5 broke the sync and I can't figure out why this was needed. I mean it is bibliographic info that is contained in the sync and both z4 and z5 should be able to disregard the bits and pieces that falls out of their scope. I guess the developers choose to do the sync in internal formats for some reason and if so this is where we disagree.
  • dstillman
    But on the other hand z5 is a downgrade in certain ways (or was at least last when I tried it out after beta had ended).
    Again, there've been many changes over the last year. Please don't waste our time complaining about a version you haven't tried in a year. If there are things you're having trouble with in 5, start new threads about those issues.
    My major issue is that z5 broke the sync and I can't figure out why this was needed.
    Again, Zotero 4 and 5 use completely different sync architectures, and we need to discontinue 4 sync to continue development on both the client and the server. Syncing is vastly more complicated than you make it out to be.

    Closing this thread.
  • dstillman
    (I forgot we've already been through this with Grode. Sorry to everyone for not closing this sooner.)
This discussion has been closed.