Zotero standalone and Mozilla upgrade

p.goglio
Dear all,
I have been using zotero for nearly 7 years and I find it an excellent software because it is embedded in mozilla, automatically synchronised and so on. I received the sad news that mozilla does not allow this to happen. I wonder if there is a way around it. I tried Zotero 5 standalone and it does not sinc with the database online. I have been working on 2 machines and with zotero 5 I was not able to update each other. Is there a way to solve this?
  • dstillman
    Zotero 5 certainly syncs, but you'd have to say more about what exactly the problem is.

    https://www.zotero.org/support/reporting_problems
  • Grode
    Another option: Stay on Firefox 52 ESR 32bit and Zotero 4 for many years ahead. In there you can run Java, Unity, Flash and so on without any issues. And as with win XP (I still run that on a number of older PCs) all what we have heard about security issues has gone away. Nobody cares about trying to attack the old systems. Also I don't have to learn that much new, most that afterall will be changed over and over again before it is given up.
  • bwiernik
    It is extremely unsafe to run an out of date unsupported browser. And Zotero 4 syncing will stop in the near future to permit long awaited changes to Zotero item types and fields. It’s will not be possible to continue using Zotero 4, nor will the volunteers or devs on these forums be able to provide support.
  • dstillman
    The idea that security issues on unsupported software don't materialize is absurd and, frankly, dangerous.

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/13/15635006/microsoft-windows-xp-security-patch-wannacry-ransomware-attack
    https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/16/adobe-flash-vulnerability-hackers-plant-malware/
    https://www.csoonline.com/article/2875535/application-security/java-is-the-biggest-vulnerability-for-us-computers.html
    https://www.theverge.com/2013/1/12/3867332/department-of-homeland-security-disable-java
  • Grode
    I am telling you that by experience it is more dangerous to run the things that is fashion than running the left behinds. Like all the crypto attacks they only did one thing on XP: blue screen of death. Reboot and nothing else had happened.

    But serious: What does it mean that all Z4 syncing will stop. I kind of understand why, but if I am just running my own little world on my PC, will it not keep on running like nothing else has happened?
  • dstillman
    Like all the crypto attacks they only did one thing on XP: blue screen of death. Reboot and nothing else had happened.
    That's just plainly false. I just linked to a story about millions of unpatched Windows XP machines having their files encrypted and held for ransom. Exploited machines are also used in massive botnets for DDoS attacks, so by purposely running vulnerable software you're endangering the Internet at large as well as your own data. Unpatched machines are a public health hazard on the Internet. You can take that risk, but it's ridiculous to claim that it's not the case. The fact that you didn't get the flu doesn't mean that not getting vaccinated was a good idea, or that you're not endangering others as well.
    What does it mean that all Z4 syncing will stop.
    It means we'll be turning off syncing for Zotero 4.0. You can continue to use it locally, though site translators also may stop working, and you won't receive support here. But most importantly, by running an outdated version of Firefox (in the case of 52 ESR, past June 2018) you're making yourself and others vulnerable to attacks, whether or not you want to acknowledge that.
  • Grode
    Well isn't it interesting that they can predict that a browser will be outdated some time in the future. When I fire up my machines running win98SE or maybe even run something in DOS 5.0 they are vulnerable. Of course they are. But nobody attacks them. Just like my old Novell servers... nobody cares about them any more or nobody knows about them anymore.
    Notice recently somebody showed that all WIFIs are vulnerable and has always been. Did you worry before or do you run your WIFI like me completely without any protection?

    Actually I have been riding bicycles since I was a child. Back then there was no helmets so we had to survive our crash in other ways. I still don't use a helmet but I have tested it. It turns out that I get more injuries around my neck and head with a helmet than without. Why? My head gets more heavy with a helmet. So security is not just a matter of protection.

    And my old Firefox or Netscape is needed to run certain stuff. So I use that when it is needed.

    I will miss the support (Zotero support is outstanding) and maybe I will be disturbed about site translators, but as you know z5 breaks more for me than staying with z4 does. I will move one day, but given that I still has to run Unity, has to run Java and so on the argument for stopping up and stop updating is convincing
  • dstillman
    edited November 10, 2017
    Well isn't it interesting that they can predict that a browser will be outdated some time in the future.
    Not sure what you're implying here. That's just when support ends, meaning it won't receive future security updates. So after that date, as new vulnerabilities are discovered in the Firefox code base, they won't be fixed even if they apply to the older version — even if they could be used for passive, drive-by remote code execution on your machine. Comparing software whose primary job is to interact with untrusted web content to a local DOS 5.0 program makes no sense. And I'm not sure why you're refusing to acknowledge the security issues in unpatched software I linked to above, including the Windows XP issue in which Microsoft took the extraordinary step of issue a critical security patch for end-of-life software because people's data was actively being encrypted and held for ransom.

    This is your choice, obviously, but it's a bad one, and it's irresponsible to recommend it to others. We strongly encourage everyone to update beyond Firefox 52 ESR by June 2018.
    but as you know z5 breaks more for me than staying with z4 does
    I don't know what you mean by that, but we've fixed various save issues in Firefox in the latest connector version and aren't aware of any remaining general issues. We're happy to help troubleshoot any other issues in current versions.
  • Grode
    edited November 10, 2017
    Yep but sometimes I probably behave very irresponsible, like when I walk across street for red light. In some cities that is sometimes more safe that to wait for the light to turn green.

    BTW the M$ patch has not reached any of my XPs. I read about it, but not seen any of them have any desire to update anything. I don't doubt that some XPs was struck by the ransom wave, but I have seen the blue screen death as a response to the attacks. Besides XP is as you mention still not that old as many people runs it. My win98SE ... no attempted attacks at all - and both those and the DOS stuff are running on the internet from time to time. Novell servers (when I fire them up) all the time. Sadly I burned my main server off two years ago, so I should have protected it better from myself.

    I guess I can say something like I do not refuse to acknowledge danger but I simply choose to go there because it is hard ;-) I do not encourage anyone to follow my in my footsteps.

    But more important: z5 versus z4: I tried the switch in the end of september. Several things did not work out very well, and just now I have forgotten what in the end made me switch back. But it was something that was not just a bug more like something that might be worked on later or maybe never and was more related to the way I work more than how Zotero works. I will have to go over the threads from 6-8 weeks ago to see if I can spot it.
    ... little later: Believe it is the missing save to zotero option in FF's preview of pdf files. When I tested it would me I would have to save to a directory and then later drag the saved file into Zotero and so on. I believe that was what made me downgrade.
  • adamsmith
    You can really do what you want -- it's called free software for a reason, and you've now been amply made aware of the possible consequences, but we would ask that you don't suggest to other people (certainly not here on the forums, ideally not anywhere) that they follow your example (as you did at the beginning of this thread).
  • p.goglio
    Thanks for the post... that is an interesting debate... Somebody asked me what was happening and I will give you a very simple example. This is my library in machine A using zotero 5 standalone and mozilla plugins:
    Smith et al 2017
    Goglio et al 2017
    Williams et al 2012

    Today I download a file from Paustian et al 2016 still machine A.
    After few hours I start working on machine B with zotero 5 standalone and Mozilla plugin. What I see in my library:
    Smith et al 2017
    Goglio et al 2017
    Williams et al 2012

    No sign of Paustian et al 2016 in machine B, even pressing the Sync or update button. Is it possible to synchonise through zotero two machines and if so how?
  • bwiernik
    Start here and start a new thread if you run into any issues:
    https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/changes_not_syncing
  • p.goglio
    Well I am not running into this issues with Zotero 4 embedded in Mozilla. I wonder if the issue might have been risen due to the fact that one machine was on zotero 4 and the other zotero 5. Has anybody experienced similar issues with 2 machines with zotero 5 standalone and mozilla plugins?
    All contributions are appreciated, I am very thankful to all who have contributed till now.
  • dstillman
    You'll need to follow those steps and start a new thread as necessary. This should work fine.
  • dstillman
    (But you should also upgrade the Zotero 4.0 installation anyway.)
  • p.goglio
    Please notice, the issue it is solved. I upgraded both machines with Zotero 5, properly installed the Mozilla plugin and I am not encountering this issue. I really appreciate your contribution. Thanks a lot for your precious help and collaboration.
  • dstillman
    Great, glad to hear it's working.
This discussion has been closed.