Combined language in footnotes

rhausoul
In Dutch publications we normally use the language of the source in our footnotes and bibliography. So as a result languages will be mixed in our works. For example, a footnote will look like this (specific language in bold):

• Schreiber, Hans und Mark Bleistift. “A German title.” In Deutsches werk, Hrsg. Hubert Herausgeber, 132-230. Berlin: Plopke, 2002; Writer, Pim and Judith Scriber. “A English title.” In English Work, Ed. Kees Editor, 132-230. Londen: Slopke, 2002; Schrijver, Hans en Jan Pen. “A Dutch title.” In Nederlands werk, red. Kees Redacteur, 132-230. Amsterdam: Klopke, 2002.

Is there a possibility in Zotero to arrange this automatically? As far as I can discover, Zotero uses only one language. I hoped that the field ‘language’ in the database was made for accomplishing this. But till now, I didn’t find any solution.
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  • fbennett
    This can be done in Juris-M, in a couple of different ways. One (where radically different formatting is required across language domains) involves casting separate styles for different language categories. The other (probably sufficient here) involves using a locale condition to select localized content for particular languages.

    (Having said that, I see that the documentation for the extensions that enable this is not, um, accessible at its intended location on the Web. I'll work to get it back online this weekend.)
  • adamsmith
    In case that's not clear from fbennett's answer: the corollary to "this can be done in Juris-m" is that it can't be done, currently, in regular Zotero.
  • fbennett
    As adamsmith says.

    Getting the docs back online was a less traumatic experience than I thought it would be. The description of multiple layouts, such as it is, is here.

    The "locale" condition (documented in the same page) would not address the use case, it turns out: you would need to use multiple layouts.

    For personal use, you can create a multi-layout style with a small amount of editing, and although Zotero will issue a warning that the style is invalid when you install it, it should run. For syntax checking, you can use the Juris-M validating editor. If you would like to pursue that, let me know: I'll be happy to walk you through the process of setting it up.
  • rhausoul
    Thanks for quick reply fbennett. I need only the locale condition to select localized content for particular languages. So I already installed Juris-M as add-one in Firefox, besides Zotero. The icon Juris-M is now visible in the Zotero-database.

    The style I will use is Turabian. The description of multiple layouts you mentioned is exactly what I want. The only languages I use are English, German and Dutch. I hope this can be arranged by inserting the code:

    <citation>
    <layout locale="en de nl">
    <text macro="layout-citation-roman"/>
    </layout>
    </citation>

    in the style. But where should I place this?

    P.S. Normally I work with the Code editor of http://editor.citationstyles.org/codeEditor.
  • fbennett
    edited June 2, 2016
    Here is a simple example that produces the cites from your post:

    https://github.com/Juris-M/citeproc-js/blob/master/tests/fixtures/local/language_Condition.txt

    As you can see, the code differs a little. We use a separate layout for each language, with a locale attribute on all but the last, which serves as the default. If multiple languages are listed in a layout, the first-listed is the "rendering" locale for that layout, but the other languages will be "caught" by it.

    The CSL visual editor can't be used for this, unfortunately; the multiple layouts will break it. The Juris-M editor is less convenient in some ways, but it does provide a preview mechanism, and can validate styles against the CSL-M schema.
  • rhausoul
    Thanks, you code is clear. But now I’m a little confused. Will this just be some editing and reinstall of the Turabian-style, followed with a refresh, or should I replace all the Zotero-footnotes in my document?...

    Ok, so I started the Juris-M editor and took some time reading the introduction. Started the Atlantis-stuff (but something went different. Couldn’t see the fields TITLE, AUTHOR in sample...).

    At the moment I try to understand the things we want to do… Is there no-one on earth who already inserted the multiple language-code in Turabian-style? Maybe I miss something… At the moment Juris-M is for me a more sophisticated Zotero-style (with new options, etc.). Therefore I hoped that I could load the style, edit it a little bit, save it to my harddisk, reinstall it and press refresh in Zotero.
  • fbennett
    The instructions in the editor are for legal style modules; the modifications you would need to do for a style are actually quite small. If you point me at the style you would like to modify, I can whip it up for you, no problem.
  • rhausoul
    Frank, the style I want to use is called "Turabian 8th edition (full note)".
  • rhausoul
    P.S. Please make sure the reference to the editors is not the long "edited by", but the short Ed./Hrsg./red.. Also the comma between multiple editors is left in German and Dutch (A, B, and C / A, B und C / A, B en C). But maybe I can change this by myself when I become more familiar with Juris M. Already searched Youtube/internet for examples of it.
  • fbennett
    I've started the edits, will finish it up tomorrow. More soon-ish ...
  • fbennett
    I have a validating version of the style, with the three layouts. I'll need to address one wrinkle before posting it for you to try out: the locale of things like "ibid" also switches, which is probably not what you want. I'll code a small extension to cope with it, make some adjustments to the style, and you should be all ready to go.

    If the style will run in official Zotero (despite a whinge when the style is installed), that might be the better option for you, since Juris-M is not supported by the Zotero team.
  • fbennett
    edited June 3, 2016
    A couple of questions: What should happen with dates? Also, what should be the locale of terms like "in" (as used for book chapters)?
  • fbennett
    One more question: Which locale should be used for locator terms ("page" etc.)?
  • rhausoul
    Hi Frank,
    1. Correctly, 'ibid.' should not switch.
    2. Dates mention only the year, so there should be no problem with this. In the past I switched the style already to Dutch and everything went fine when I chose the short-references in the style (mentioned above).
    3. The locale 'in' is the same in all three languages.
    4. In locale only 'page' is used. Other options are not necessary.

    Thanks!
  • fbennett
    Okay! It's done, but I'm out of the house on errands for the next few hours. I'll make it available on the Juris-M site when it's all ready, if that's okay.
  • rhausoul
    Yes, I will try it then and report problems to you. I understand the field 'Language' in the database of Zotero will now tell this style which language it will use.
  • rhausoul
    P.S. Should the discussion be continued on this forum? Or should we discuss it further by email/Juris-M forum?
  • fbennett
    I think we're fine here: since the style will run in official Zotero, devs and others may be interested to see how it turns out for you.

    It's ready to go now. You can install the style from here. You will receive a warning from Zotero, but you can click past it. The style actually will break unless you install the processor patch plugin (Propachi Vanilla or Propachi Upper) from here.

    A quick trial in Zotero was successful here; see how it goes!
  • rhausoul
    edited June 4, 2016
    Beautiful! Almost everything is right. Just some small points:

    1. In German and Dutch there is a comma before ‘und’/’en’, when you use multiply authors. This should only be the case in the English style. [I.c.: Author One, Author Two en Author Three || Author One, Author Two und Author Three || Author One, Author Two, and Author Three].

    2. In the bibliography the ‘editors’ and ‘translators’ should be short-references (also point 1 should be applied here).

    3. The field ‘accessed’ is not in Dutch/German translated.

    4. On your downloadsite of the style JM Turabian you should change the instruction for English. It should be "en", not "de". Also not Dutch, but English is the locale in this style. When I left ‘language’ open the reference appears in English. This is ok.

    5. Is it possible to change the " to ' in the citations? In Dutch this is the standard for Dutch/German/English.
  • fbennett
    Items 1-5 should be fixed now (and thanks for picking up the typo in the page).

    If anything further needs adjusting, just give the word.
  • fbennett
    Oh, there was one point still to confirm. In response to (4), I changed the default locale to "nl-NL," so that items with no language specified will be Dutch. If that should be reverted to English (and the note in the page amended instead) just let me know.
  • rhausoul
    Thanks Frank,
    An error occurred when I set a source to 'en': "Ist[i] is undefined." Maybe this happened, because the first time I didn't specify the English sources. I hope this can be fixed.

    Dutch+German layout is correct.

    I would prefer to set the default locale to "En-en", because most publications today are in English. When English is the default locale, the style can also be used in Germany. So it will become a international style. To make it complete (when this is easy): add French and Spain to it, and it can be defined as "European-Style" on your website. For my own work Spain is not used and French is mostly dismissed. In any case, I would change the default locale to "En-en".
  • fbennett
    edited June 6, 2016
    lst[i] is undefinedThis is with one of the Propachi plugins installed, or without?
  • fbennett
    (Your suggested changes to the website and to the style are now in place.)
  • rhausoul
    Thanks, everything is fine now. Brilliant.

    The error appeared with the Propachi plug-in installed (Upper). After re-install of the plug-in and re-start, there where some errors. But when I changed the styles they disappeared.

    P.S. You can also change the text of the icon "JM Turabian (Dutch)" in "JM Turabian (EU)".
  • rhausoul
    Oops, I overlooked the date-field. At the moment is stays always in English...
  • rhausoul
    edited June 6, 2016
    Another little bug: the word 'editor' and 'translator' are only short-refs in book-sections. This should also be the case in articles, books, and website.

    Also, all words of the English titles are Capitalized. This should not be the case. For example: "Introduction to Zotero in Germany" should not be written as: "Introduction To Zotero In Germany".

    Is there a program/site with which I can change the style easy? At the moment, the Editor on Juris-M looks complex.
  • fbennett
    To confirm: dates should shift to their localized forms? (We can do that, just double-checking.)

    On aggressive capitalization, I don't see that here. What is your platform (Firefox version, OS)?

    The editor on https://juris-m.github.io is the only thing that has a validator built in, but you can also make changes in the (much simpler) built-in editor (Preferences -> Advanced -> Open Style Editor).
  • rhausoul
    edited June 6, 2016
    Yes, dates take also their localized forms. For example: 'June' should be 'juni' in Dutch.

    - Cap. is not aggressive. Is ok for me. Platform FF, Win10, OpenOffice. I came across a English work which mentions some German word in the title, therefore, this can also be annoying.
    - Thanks for the editor, this helps a lot.

    I will wait till you finish the style.

    addition: when you add new books to Zotero the name of the language is often "German", "Dutch", "French". Is there a possibility to include also these words in the style? At the moment I change them to "de" and "nl".

    add2: line space in bibliography can be reduced to normal. Users can edited this in texteditor.
  • DWL-SDCA
    The language word to language 2-letter abbreviation would be a great thing if implemented across all import translators. It would be a really great time-saver. Absent that in the translators, is this possible in the processor or in the program itself?
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