Upgrade StorageTranslation issues - Swedish shorts
Hi
Reading though the locales-sv-SE.xml I noticed some errors and inconsistancies that need some attention. The changes I'd suggest could also need some prior discussion before any implementation, hence this post in the forum.
Whoever translated the xml did a fantastic job (thanks!), but the translation could nevertheless be improved
For the xml see:
https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/blob/master/locales-sv-SE.xml#L44
Issue 1:
Short form for >no date<
Line 44
<term name="no date">inget datum</term>
<term name="no date" form="short">nd</term>
There is not standard short for "no date" in the SAOL ("Svenska Akademins ordlista", the standard thesaurus in swedish), but the most common way of citing any work withuot a date I think would be "utan årtal" (literally "no year"), short "u.å.". Se for instace (in swedish):
http://www.im.uu.se/student/guide-till-harvardsystemet/referenser/
"inget datum" is a direct translation of no date, but has limitied use as far as I can tell.
My suggestion would be to change the xml to:
<term name="no date">utan årtal</term>
<term name="no date" form="short">u.å.</term>
Issue 2:
Plural short form for Editor and others
lines 235-, 270
<term name="editor" form="short">
<single>red</single>
<multiple>reds</multiple>
The swedish word for editor, "redaktör" has a plural "redaktörer", but as far as I know the correct short form is "red.", never "reds.". Swedish does not construct plural with the addition of an s, as in english. In swedish the suffix "s" indicates possession (similar to german), nothing else.
Besides, the short in the xml is missing a period after the abbreviation (and also line 270)
My suggestion would be to make the single and multiple form identical, adding a period.
<term name="editor" form="short">
<single>red.</single>
<multiple>red.</multiple>
The same argument goes for illustrator (line 243), mulitiple should be same as single. For "Illustated by" (line 260) there in no translation.If needed (and I see no reason why not) the most common translation would be "illustrationer av", but "illustrerad av" is probably bettter and more in line with the original.
Suggestion:
<term name="illustrator" form="verb">illustrerad av</term>
I've read the discussions on translation of "director", so we can leave the rest of those lines as they are. "Translator" happens to be correct, since the word "översätttare" has an s where the word is cut, "övers" for both single and multiple. The period after the short is missing here as well (and in line 273)
(line 247-) should be:
<term name="translator" form="short">
<single>övers.</single>
<multiple>övers.</multiple>
"volume", line 189-
Should be:
<term name="volume" form="short">
<single>vol.</single>
<multiple>vol.</multiple>
</term>
In line 157 there is a simple misspelling in <multiple>, should be:
<term name="volume">
<single>volym</single>
<multiple>volymer</multiple>
</term>
The multiple for pages (line 170- ) is a bit tricky.
The form "ss" (eng: "pp") is in use in academia. It's still wrong grammatically, a single "s" would be correct for both <single> and <mulitple>. Furthermore "ss" is already an official abbreviation in the SAOL, but for "såsom" (eng: "as/like"). Changing the xml would be in line with swedish grammar and ortography, but would brake academic "habit", at least for some. Here comments from fellow swedish speakers would be of great value.
My suggestion would be (like the danish locale)
<term name="page" form="short">
<single>s.</single>
<multiple>s.</multiple>
</term>
<term name="number-of-pages" form="short">
<single>s.</single>
<multiple>s.</multiple>
I know that most language perculiarities can be catered for by writing a localised CSL, but the most likely use in a small language like swedish is propably to use a style without a default locale. To facilitate that, the changes suggested above would be an improvement ,I think.
So, swedes and swedish speakers, what do you think?
For comparison of the use of Eds. etc se the danish version (swedish and danish are gramatically almost identical)
https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/blob/master/locales-da-DK.xml
By the way - the danish translation still contains the same error that was previously corrected in the swedish one - months should never be initialised, but I'd leave that to a native speaker to confirm. Issue similar to https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/34428/translation-issue-capitalized-letters-in-swedish/
Reading though the locales-sv-SE.xml I noticed some errors and inconsistancies that need some attention. The changes I'd suggest could also need some prior discussion before any implementation, hence this post in the forum.
Whoever translated the xml did a fantastic job (thanks!), but the translation could nevertheless be improved
For the xml see:
https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/blob/master/locales-sv-SE.xml#L44
Issue 1:
Short form for >no date<
Line 44
<term name="no date">inget datum</term>
<term name="no date" form="short">nd</term>
There is not standard short for "no date" in the SAOL ("Svenska Akademins ordlista", the standard thesaurus in swedish), but the most common way of citing any work withuot a date I think would be "utan årtal" (literally "no year"), short "u.å.". Se for instace (in swedish):
http://www.im.uu.se/student/guide-till-harvardsystemet/referenser/
"inget datum" is a direct translation of no date, but has limitied use as far as I can tell.
My suggestion would be to change the xml to:
<term name="no date">utan årtal</term>
<term name="no date" form="short">u.å.</term>
Issue 2:
Plural short form for Editor and others
lines 235-, 270
<term name="editor" form="short">
<single>red</single>
<multiple>reds</multiple>
The swedish word for editor, "redaktör" has a plural "redaktörer", but as far as I know the correct short form is "red.", never "reds.". Swedish does not construct plural with the addition of an s, as in english. In swedish the suffix "s" indicates possession (similar to german), nothing else.
Besides, the short in the xml is missing a period after the abbreviation (and also line 270)
My suggestion would be to make the single and multiple form identical, adding a period.
<term name="editor" form="short">
<single>red.</single>
<multiple>red.</multiple>
The same argument goes for illustrator (line 243), mulitiple should be same as single. For "Illustated by" (line 260) there in no translation.If needed (and I see no reason why not) the most common translation would be "illustrationer av", but "illustrerad av" is probably bettter and more in line with the original.
Suggestion:
<term name="illustrator" form="verb">illustrerad av</term>
I've read the discussions on translation of "director", so we can leave the rest of those lines as they are. "Translator" happens to be correct, since the word "översätttare" has an s where the word is cut, "övers" for both single and multiple. The period after the short is missing here as well (and in line 273)
(line 247-) should be:
<term name="translator" form="short">
<single>övers.</single>
<multiple>övers.</multiple>
"volume", line 189-
Should be:
<term name="volume" form="short">
<single>vol.</single>
<multiple>vol.</multiple>
</term>
In line 157 there is a simple misspelling in <multiple>, should be:
<term name="volume">
<single>volym</single>
<multiple>volymer</multiple>
</term>
The multiple for pages (line 170- ) is a bit tricky.
The form "ss" (eng: "pp") is in use in academia. It's still wrong grammatically, a single "s" would be correct for both <single> and <mulitple>. Furthermore "ss" is already an official abbreviation in the SAOL, but for "såsom" (eng: "as/like"). Changing the xml would be in line with swedish grammar and ortography, but would brake academic "habit", at least for some. Here comments from fellow swedish speakers would be of great value.
My suggestion would be (like the danish locale)
<term name="page" form="short">
<single>s.</single>
<multiple>s.</multiple>
</term>
<term name="number-of-pages" form="short">
<single>s.</single>
<multiple>s.</multiple>
I know that most language perculiarities can be catered for by writing a localised CSL, but the most likely use in a small language like swedish is propably to use a style without a default locale. To facilitate that, the changes suggested above would be an improvement ,I think.
So, swedes and swedish speakers, what do you think?
For comparison of the use of Eds. etc se the danish version (swedish and danish are gramatically almost identical)
https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/blob/master/locales-da-DK.xml
By the way - the danish translation still contains the same error that was previously corrected in the swedish one - months should never be initialised, but I'd leave that to a native speaker to confirm. Issue similar to https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/34428/translation-issue-capitalized-letters-in-swedish/
The changes in the KTH and Swedish legal are along the lines of my suggestions as far as I can tell, with som additional changes (e.g editortranslator)
Especially the pages issue is worth underlining - it seems more native speakers would agree with my suggestions for the locale-sv-SE.xml
e.g Swedish legal
http://editor.citationstyles.org/styleInfo/?styleId=http://www.zotero.org/styles/swedish-legal
<terms>
<term name="page" form="short">
<single>s.</single>
<multiple>s.</multiple>
</term>
<term name="editor" form="short">
<single>red.</single>
<multiple>red.</multiple>
</term>
None of the three swedish styles seem to contain the term "no date", so that question would still remain for discussion. Personally I see no reason to stick to default english "nd" when there is a possible (and used) translation. But as I said, I'd like some more comments from swedish speakers on that.
Looking at your changes, the only one that seems potentially controversial seems the s/ss for pages. All those terms are really old in the locale, so I don't think we can track down the original translator to ask for a 2nd opinion.
You argument sounds plausible enough to me, though, so I'd gladly take a pull request on these (https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md ).
On a sidenote--what's the deal with periods after abbreviations in Swedish? The locale is very inconsistent in that respect. Are they never used? Never used for some abbreviations? Otherwise, every abbreviation should end in a period by CSL conventions (which can then be removed in the style via strip-periods="true")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Language_Council
I'm pretty sure nothing has changed regarding abbreviations, but my own copy is quite old.
adamsmith - thank you as well. The "no date" issue is solved then.
An argument for the suggested change of s/ss would be that it conforms with the guideline mentioned above. It will also make all abbreviations follow the same pattern. Which leads me to your sidenote.
All abbreviations in swedish should end with a period, the only exceptions beeing SI units (e.g kg for kilogram), However the guideline is only a recommendation, not a strict set of rules. The original translator wasn't formally wrong (apart from the plurals), you can leave the ending periods if you like. The fault was rather that the translator wasn't consistent, which is an absolute must. You can't have it both ways.
I've read the entire locale again, and there's some other changes that need to be made, but all are similar to the ones suggested, with the same motivations.
I'll consult the guideline and my collegues and then make the pull request,it willbe my first ever.
@adamsmith - some more on your sidenote, according to the guideline (got a new copy) it's a bit more complicated than I stated above. Words that have been cut off (e.g "red." for "redaktör" (editor)) should end with a period. Words that have been contracted should not (e.g "ca" for "cirka" in the locale)
I'll make the changes strictly following the guidelines in "Svenska skrivregler" mentioned above (my collegues agree).