Create a new style

Hi!

I've just switched from Endnote 10 to Zotero and was wondering if it's possible to create an own style. Most of the styles used are based on the anglo-saxon world and as I work in France, I would like to create a style corresponding to my university's defaults. I've had a look round the other threads and the available documentation but found no answer.

Thanks for the help!
titu
  • Hi,
    I've got the same problem as you! Anybody around to help the France-based scholars?
    Thanks.
  • a) you can import Endnote styles into Zotero
    b) there's a beta version of a style creator here: http://www.somwhere.org/demo/
    c) there's a guide on how to write your own .csl styles here: http://dev.zotero.org/creating_citation_styles

    hope one of theses helps.
  • Flo
    edited September 13, 2008
    Thank you for the links, but I don't own Endnote.
    I tried the style creator, it 's quite user-friendly and it works fine, except it only allows citation in a "scientific" style. In French humanities, for a citation in a footnote, we need author, title, place, date (actually, it's very similar to what appears in the bibliography). Unless I'm mistaken, I can't modify the citation order with the generator (it only allows number or author-date citation)
    I also had a look at the "creating citation styles guide", but I really am an ignoramus regarding programing, and it seems quite complicated...
    Any suggestions?
    Thanks a lot.
  • Bonjour,

    I search also in French Humanities and literature. I have the same problem to find a "french style". It's not so easy to create one when you are not used too.
    I still not really understand why French scholars don't seem to use bibliographic tool like Endnote and Zotero...
    We are certainly not the only ones to have this problem. Maybe we can make a kind of " "french group" to discuss about tolls for French Humanities. There is not a lot of "translators" too for french database.

    Luc
  • It seems like you might want to modify an existing CSL like Chicago Manual of Style. Do you have a link to documentation on the style you would like to create? If so, perhaps someone here in the forums can assist you.
  • for endnote styles look here - you don't have to own the software in order to download (and use) the style and there are so many that there's at least a chance you can find one you need.
    http://www.endnote.com/support/enstyles.asp

    You're right on the style creator it can't do footnotes, I didn't see that.
    I agree with Sean - look at Chicago (full note) style and see what needs to be changed.
    If you feel like exploring on yourself (which is quite interesting and very much in the spirit of open source) look at the csl documentation here:
    http://dev.zotero.org/csl_syntax_summary
    modify the Chicago style and tests your results on the cool Zt test pane here:
    chrome://zotero/content/tools/csledit.xul
    but as Sean said you can also just ask for help here
  • Yeah, I think the first step is the hardest in some ways: to figure out the existing style that is closest to what you need, and to itemize any possible differences. If you can post them here clearly, someone may be able to find time to help you.

    Also, keep in mind: the styling system is not language-specific, so the fact that you are writing in French isn't really relevant.
  • Flo
    edited September 14, 2008
    Hello everyone,
    Thank you for your comments and suggestions (and useful links). I had a look at Endnote styles, but found nothing closer to what I would need other than Chicago style.
    So I think we might just begin with trying to figure out what we would need, in terms of style, as French humanities researchers (so Luc, if you've got an opinion about it...) I know that language isn't relevant, except that in French we use "dans" and not "in" for parts of books, "éd." and not "ed.", « » quotation marks, and not "" etc.
    Are there any other people interested in defining what we need? Then we could try to change the Chicago style (I'm willing to give it a go, if I manage to)
    I found these edition rules on a website. Any comments?

    Pour les citations en note de bas de page:
    o Nom de l’auteur en petites capitales, précédé de l’initiale du prénom suivi d’un point et d’un espace insécable ; puis vient le titre en italique, suivi du lieu et de la date d’édition. Tous ces éléments sont séparés par une virgule.
    Ex. : G. DUBY,Guillaume le Maréchal, Paris, 1984.
    o Dans le cas d’ouvrages collectifs, d’éditions, de traductions : titre de l’article entre parenthèses, indiquer « dans », puis le titre de l’ouvrage en italique, puis le nom du directeur, de l’éditeur ou du traducteur suivi de dir., éd. ou trad.
    Ex. : J.-P. AZÉMA, « La guerre », dans Pour une Histoire politique, R. RÉMOND dir., Paris, 1988, p. 250-270.
    o Pas de « dans » comme séparateur entre le titre de l’article et celui de la revue. Référence au tome et à l’année comme suit : E. GALTIER, « Byzantina », Romania, 29(1900), p. 501-527.
    o Indiquer les collections de la manière suivante : Max Weber. Der Historiker, J. KOCKA dir., Göttingen, 1986 (Kritische Studien zur Geschichtswissenschaft, 73).
    o On n’indiquera pas le nombre total de pages d’un livre
    o Dans la bibliographie, tout pareil, sauf que le nom précède le prénom (DUBY, G.)
  • Bonjour,

    For Franch Style, with Endnote (but I'm not very a big user of it...), I use sometime 2 styles made by Université du Québec à Montréal (Canada): 1) generic 2) history.
    You can find a very complete information about Endnote (for someone who start using bibliographic sotware, it could be very usefull...), and you can download these 2 styles, and ad it to Endnote.1
    http://www.bibliotheques.uqam.ca/procite/outils_endnote.html
    Theses 2 UQAM' styles can't resolve all problems for french bibliography, but it's well documented. They give also the way to modify a style in Endnote. I try some changes. For do that, I found in easier to modify a style in Endnote than in Zotero, but maybe I don't really try to do it and understand it. For everybody, the multiplicty of styles is really a big bug for every scholar.

    After download these UQAM's styles, it's possible to export Endnote's style to Zotero. I think, and use it.
    It's a good start for french bibliography.

    BUT, as in all languages, there is no a "universal french style". Each periodicals or publisher as his own specifity (or "caprices"), and they change it very often.
    When I began my studies in literature (around 20 years ago), there was almost just one delimeter used: ",". Now, we find: . / : ; (), etc... We always give the total pages of a book, now, not!?

    I hope it could help, and we start from the UQAM style to develop few french bibliographic styles.

    Merci,

    Luc
  • sounds great. Don't be shy about asking for help with specific questions here and if you do make a modified version (or several) of Chicago style don't forget to upload it to the repository.
  • Hello,
    thanks for your useful comments. I think starting with UQAM style would be a good idea, unfortunately, I haven't found out how to import a style from Endnote into Zotero when you don't own Endnote. Can anyone help?
    By the way, I had a look at the Chicago Manual of Style (Full Note with Bibliography) which is indeed quite close to what I would need, but it definitely seems too complex for me.
    Thanks.
  • I see a lot of people asking for new doc types, new styles.

    While a more robust solution is developed, this could be done in a few days: have an upgrade version with a general "document" type with as many fields as possible. I miss fields like Institution, Place, Publisher... Then have some generic styles to handle just this expanded "document" type.

    That will help my life, while I wait for a more "definite" solution, e.g, a tool to customize doc types and styles.

    ;-)
  • thanks for your useful comments. I think starting with UQAM style would be a good idea, unfortunately, I haven't found out how to import a style from Endnote into Zotero when you don't own Endnote.
    There is no way to import EndNote styles into Zotero. Creating a new CSL style is the best and currently only way to add support for a new citation format. Please inspect the Zotero style repository & comment on which style is closest to matching your needs & what changes will need to be made. Add a link to full documentation for your style format.
  • While a more robust solution is developed, this could be done in a few days: have an upgrade version with a general "document" type with as many fields as possible. I miss fields like Institution, Place, Publisher... Then have some generic styles to handle just this expanded "document" type.
    It is unclear if you are making a feature request or are advising other users how to handle not having direct support for their types.

    Zotero already has a document type & CSL is already able to down-play the role of types in formatting (so that the document type should be correctly formatted most of the time). So, I don't think you are requesting anything that isn't already present.

    Your proposed workflow is excellent advice for others!
  • It is unclear if you are making a feature request or are advising other users how to handle not having direct support for their types.
    The poster is suggesting that the longtime limitations in the "Document" type in Zotero be fixed now so that it's easier for users to store (and in turn format) a wider range of content.
  • The poster is suggesting that the longtime limitations in the "Document" type in Zotero be fixed now
    Ah--makes sense. The ticket lists place & publisher is already supported. It would be nice if Document was a true superset of all existing types, though--one should be able to change a book to a document with no data loss, etc.
  • Bonjour,

    je suis partant pour le "french group" proposé par bougau. D'ici un mois, j'aurai un peu de temps pour participer à la mise au point d'un style.
  • I have a similar problem with styles offered in zotero, but I am confused now, is there a way to import endnote styles or not? If it is possible, how exactly can it be done? Thanks a lot!
  • The present sync beta version of Zotero is able to use EndNote styles as-is. This feature was disabled in the previous beta following the Thomson Reuters lawsuit against GMU. Thomson Reuters has stated that you cannot use EndNote styles in third-party software without their written consent.

    CSL files are better than .ENS files (both legally and technically), so it is best to develop or help to develop more CSL style files & ween away from the undocumented EndNote style format.
  • "The present sync beta version of Zotero is able to use EndNote styles as-is. "

    Sorry if I am being dense, you mean I can import an existing style, but not change it? Correct? So if my styles exist in Endnote, then I can use them in Zotero 1.5? So the function to edit them was/is disabled, but not to use them?

    Thanks for the clarification either way!
  • edited November 2, 2008
    Sorry if I am being dense, you mean I can import an existing style, but not change it? Correct? So if my styles exist in Endnote, then I can use them in Zotero 1.5? So the function to edit them was/is disabled, but not to use them?
    An early preview of Zotero 1.5 already offered the ability to import and use (but not edit) Endnote styles. After the law-suit of Thomson Reuters, this feature was temporarily pulled, but it has been recently reintroduced in the latest preview versions. I haven't ever read anything on these forums that suggests that there are plans to implement the ability to edit EndNote styles.
  • Clear now, thanks.
  • edited November 12, 2008
    À Bougau

    "For Franch Style, with Endnote (but I'm not very a big user of it...), I use sometime 2 styles made by Université du Québec à Montréal (Canada): 1) generic 2) history.
    You can find a very complete information about Endnote (for someone who start using bibliographic sotware, it could be very usefull...), and you can download these 2 styles, and ad it to Endnote.1
    http://www.bibliotheques.uqam.ca/procite/outils_endnote.html"
    (envoyé le 14 sept. 2008)

    Je pense migrer de EndNote à Zotero et j'aimerais également utiliser le style Histoire de l'UQAM. Connais-tu quelqu'un qui aurait commentcé à bricoler le style pour Zotero ?
  • edited November 12, 2008
    Bonjour jvillemaire!

    I know UQAM's style, and I use it sometimes. I just begin to try to create a "style en français" pour Zotero. It's not complete now, but it works on my Zotero. I'll be very happy to show you and discuss (en français) with you about it.
    We can communicate more directly to do it. My address is at the bottom of Jacques Ferron website (www.ecrivain.net/ferron) under "Rédaction et conception générales"

    Ça me fera plaisir d'en discuter en français. À bientôt.
  • Bonjour Bougau et Jvillemaire,

    Je suis très intéressé par un style Zotero mis aux normes françaises. Je vais essayer d'ouvrir un nouveau sujet sur les forums Zotero.org afin d'y discuter en français: les autres utilisateurs francophones de Zotero pourront ainsi suivre et participer.

    And we can always post periodical translations of our dicussion topics .

    It is high time we had a proper francophone citation style and starting from the UQAM style is a very good idea, but I still don't know how this can be exported into the CSL format or whether it might be better create a new style from scratch.

    A bientôt,

    Radu
  • Radu's new thread on a French style: http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/4738/
  • Bonjour,
    A very excellente initiative. I'll move to the new thread on a French style. I already begin to create one.

    See you there...
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