Why is not PHOTO listed in Item type?

palkarlsen
I have just started using Zotero, and I like it a lot so far. I am working on a book project which will include a lot of photos. My version is Norwegian, and I have noticed that PHOTO (=FOTOGRAFI in Norwegian) is not listed in the Item List. Shouldn't it? There are more than 30 options, including film, video recording, sound, etc - but no photo.

Pål K
  • fbennett
    There is Artwork, which may serve your needs.
  • palkarlsen
    Yes, I know I could. But what if I want to distinguish between Artwork and Photos? For me it is obviously that somebody just left Photos out when the list was made, there are really, really, really no reason why it should not be an option. So the question is: can anybody put it in there? Pål K
  • fbennett
    edited October 30, 2013
    It is more likely due to conservatism in design than careless oversight.

    The main purpose of item types is to allow different treatment for citation purposes. For organisational purposes (to identify photos, sculptures, and paintings in the database, for example), tags provide a more efficient solution.

    So the question would be whether a photo and an artwork have substantially different citation forms in mainstream citation styles, or must be described by significantly different metadata fields. It could be so, but the case would need to be put to the designers.
  • palkarlsen
    OK. But I still think it is inconsistent as Film and Video recording are listed. These categories are much more in need of tags than Photo/Artwork.

    This is probably nothing that will be quickly set up for re-design, anyway? So when working on a project now would be to stick to Artwork?

    But I think my question should be taken into consideration by the designers? Should I then send it somewhere else or is noted through this discussion?

    By the way: thanks for quick replys!

    Pål K
  • adamsmith
    Should I then send it somewhere else or is noted through this discussion?
    here is fine. Devs read all threads, but you'd have to answer fbennett's questions to make a case:
    So the question would be whether a photo and an artwork have substantially different citation forms in mainstream citation styles, or must be described by significantly different metadata fields.
  • palkarlsen
    Hmm... I am not an academic, and really don't know what to mean here. But shouldn't it be OK to keep these two expressions apart from each other? I need it, and I oppose to the fact that I now have to brand all the photos as artwork. They are definitely not.

    So why not something like this - I am sure there are definitions we can go to?
    (Photo) is a representation of reality made by a camera and/or in photoshop-style software
    (Artwork) is made by an artist with the means of different tools as an expression about (what?)

    And yes, I know there are floating borders here. Both photo and artwork can meet and live well beside each other in several software solutions as well as there is photo art. But you can say the same about several of the textbased and written categories in the item list.
  • adamsmith
    Hmm... I am not an academic, and really don't know what to mean here.
    while obviously we're happy for anyone who finds Zotero useful, it is a reference management software designed by academics for academics, so design decisions are made principally with that purpose in mind.
    Item types are mainly (though not only) determined by what data they need to store and how they should be cited. Ontological considerations don't play much of a role - especially as they'd lead to an almost limitless inflation of item types.
  • palkarlsen
    edited October 30, 2013
    Well, I think it is very conservative to think that academics don't need to difference between Photo and Artwork. I have a master in Film and Television, so I am not that far out. And you have already the distinction between Film and Video recording. I think Photo vs Artwork is just as basic as that.

    When I say I am not an academic, I mean that I don't write as science. I am writing a cultural history of the porcini mushroom, and will include a lot photos and other artwork.
  • adamsmith
    The point is this:
    for different people, different items are important and the differences are really important. E.g. for an artist or art historian, the category of "artwork" is ridiculous, grouping together entirely different things like sketch, drawing, painting, sculpture, and installation. And similar considerations apply to dozens of disciplines.
    Zotero can't accommodate all of that. So the main question in distinguishing item types is reference management. Are they cited differently? do they require different fields to store relevant information? It's certainly possible that they do and in that case we'll see how to make that work.

    If you just want to distinguish between artwork and photos in you library, use tags, colored tags for quicker identification.
    And you have already the distinction between Film and Video recording.
    not all existing item types are good choices. I don't think videorecording should be an item type, nor should podcast, e.g. Those were decisions made early on and for legacy reasons it's not possible to get rid of them anymore
  • palkarlsen
    Fine, I can live with that, and live well. And I agree with you that it can be better to reduce than expand. "Podcast" is really just about to be a foregone category, if it is not already...

    Thanks for the discussion! I must now return to my Artwork.

    P

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