Distinction between book and encyclopedia in a second citation (footnotes)

m.p.gegner

Hey there,
today a made a deep dive into Zotero and wanted to adapt an already existing style towards my needs. The source style was: Geistes- und Kulturwissenschaften (Heilmann) (Deutsch)
As noted in this thread (https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/55918/style-request-kunstgeschichte-kunstwissenschaft-german) I use the encyclopedia to get the right order in my citation. And it works beautifully. Event in a second citation (a short form) I get the right informations by using the short titel field.

But now I have the problem, that normal books appear in the same manner, if cited a second time (short form), as you can see below...

encyclopedia:
Moeller, Magdalena M.: Zu Schmidt-Rottluffs Sammeln außereuropäischer Kunst. Eine Verortung, in: Karl Schmidt-Rottluff: expressiv, magisch, fremd, hrsg. von Christiane Remm, Katrin Baumstark und Magdalena M. Moeller, Ausst.-Kat. Hamburg, Bucerius Kunst Forum, München, 2018, S. 123.
->
Moeller, in: Ausst. Kat. Hamburg 2018, S. 66. (perfect!)

book:
Wagner, Christoph/Melcher, Ralph/Schmitt, Matthias (Hrsg.): Die «Brücke» und der Exotismus: Bilder des Anderen, Berlin 2011.
->
Wagner/ Melcher/ Schmitt (Hrsg.), in: Die «Brücke» und der Exotismus: Bilder des Anderen, S. 123. (wrong!)
=>
Wagner/ Melcher/ Schmitt (Hrsg.) 2011, S. 123. (That's how it should look!)

My first thoughts about solving this, was to create a distinction between book and encyclopedia in a second citation. But I don't know if that's possible and I don't know how to do that.
Maybe somebody can help me?

adamsmith

Definitely possible, yes. The general idea would be to test for
<if type="chapter">
and/or
<if type="entry-encyclopedia">

We'd be able to say more if you post your code somewhere we can look at it, e.g. pastebin.com

m.p.gegner

Thanks for the fast answer.
Hope it works this way: https://pastebin.com/SGPKMW1a

adamsmith

If you take your title short macro, you can change this to either

<macro name="title-short">
<group delimiter=", ">
<choose>
<if type="book">
<text variable="title" form="short"/>
</if>
<else-if type="entry-encyclopedia" match="any">
<text variable="title" form="short" quotes="false"/>
</else-if>
</choose>
</group>
</macro>

or


<macro name="title-short">
<group delimiter=", ">
<choose>
<if type="book">
<text variable="title" form="short"/>
</if>
<else-if type="chapter" match="none">
<text variable="title" form="short" quotes="false"/>
</else-if>
</choose>
</group>
</macro>

Both will look exactly the same for chapters and encyclopedias, but the first will _only_ add the short title for books and encyclopedias, the second will only _not_ add the short title for chapters.

m.p.gegner

Thank for your reply!
I tried both options and unfortunately non of them had the effect that I was looking for. But while reading your explanation again, I think we are likely to talk past each other. But maybe my initial post could be a little indistinct... Sorry!

I'm looking for:
encyclopedia-article (from second mention on):
Autor, in: short-title, S. XY.
->e.g. Moeller, in: Ausst. Kat. Hamburg 2018, S. 66.
[short-title here: "Ausst. Kat. Hamburg 2018")]

books (from second mention on):
Autor Year, S. XY.
->e.g. Wagner/ Melcher/ Schmitt (Hrsg.) 2011, S. 123.
or: Editor Year, S. XY
->or e.g. Müller 1992, S. 34.

So the short-title should only appear in the citation of encyclopedia-articles (from second mention on). Books should not have a short-title from second mention on.

I hope this helps to understand what's the issue.
Thank you for your efforts!

adamsmith

Oh, I just misread book as book chapter in your post above. Same idea, though. You just have to write book out of the title-short macro, so along the lines of
<macro name="title-short">
<group delimiter=", ">
<choose>
<if type="entry-encyclopedia" match="any">
<text variable="title" form="short" quotes="false"/>
</if>
</choose>
</group>
</macro>

If you end up need the short title for any other item type, you can just add it to the list of types (with a space between types)

m.p.gegner

Thanks a lot. Now it's close to the way I want it.
Only the Year is missing now in the citation of books, like in my example:

books (from second mention on):
Autor Year, S. XY.
->e.g. Wagner/ Melcher/ Schmitt (Hrsg.) 2011, S. 123.

Im looking for an option only for the books, because it shouldn't appear in the encyclopedia (exhibition calques), because exhibition runtime and year of the publication don't always match.

And is there an handy guide? CSL seem to be not super hard... but I get stuck sometimes, e.g. adding the year here -.-

Thanks for your help!

adamsmith

Something like
<macro name="title-short">
<group delimiter=", ">
<choose>
<if type="entry-encyclopedia" match="any">
<text variable="title" form="short" quotes="false"/>
</if>
<else>
<date variable="issued" form="numeric" date-parts="year"/>
</else>
</choose>
</group>
</macro>

I think that's right -- this will print the year for everything that's not a encyclopedia entry. If you want something different, you'd want else-if with the relevant types.

CSL is not terribly complicated, but it's quite versatile, so there's no single guide. There are the specifications:
https://docs.citationstyles.org/en/stable/specification.html which contain a complete description of all options in CSL.
As for guides, there are a number of Youtube videos, including by myself, that might be helpful, depending on how you like to learn.