IEEE style: Conference Paper no longer outputs Proceedings Title

chengiz5

I have a bunch of Conference Paper items with Conference Name blank and Proceedings Title filled in. Until very recently the IEEE style used to output the Proceedings Title for these, in the form: "title", in Proc... It no longer does so, so I only get "title", place, year. Can this be fixed? Or is there a similar style that outputs it the old way?

(As a side note I've often noticed the style updates seem to break backward compatibility a lot).

adamsmith

I'm not seeing that -- the style does still put out proceeding title for me and I don't see any recent-ish changes that would have changed the behavior.

What are you seeing in the "Extra" field of the affected items?

chengiz5

There is nothing in the Extra field.

I just found that the Dec 2019 version of the style works as intended.
https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/commits/master/ieee.csl

adamsmith

(What you link to is the current version of the style, FWIW)

I find no way to make the proceeding title not appear for conference papers with the current version of the IEEE style regardless of the presence or absence of other variables. It disappears for you reliably? And that's using Zotero?

chengiz5

Sorry I did add to Zotero the Dec 2019 version, which works. The link was just to the main page for that style.

I can confirm now that the latest commit there, the Jun 14 one (https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/commit/91fe25eaf222116949f3b7332b0ec62f8e59287e#diff-5f787ae4097709d3c6fa1cd89c96ef842ca721e656961c20958e9cfc63e34d98) has broken this.

The previous version works fine.

adamsmith

Ah, I missed that. But what this does is it test for a whole set of things that are typically part of something published in proceedings, including page numbers and editors and treats something as published in proceedings when those are present.

That really seems like a reasonable approach to me. What proceedings don't have an editor nor a page range for published pieces?

chengiz5

They're just online pdfs really. "Proceedings" is probably a misnomer, there's no bound book, but it's still super convenient, and I do not see why having page nos and editors should guide any decision rather than having the Proceedings Title itself?

adamsmith

The change reflects how the IEEE guide makes this distinction. See page 7/8 of https://ieeeauthorcenter.ieee.org/wp-content/uploads/IEEE-Reference-Guide.pdf and in particular the section on "Conference papers online", which you seem to be referring to and which are cited differently from papers in proceedings.

chengiz5

Seems like the committer has pushed this unrelated change into an issue that was quite separate (https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/pull/4867).

bwiernik

“Proceedings Title” is mapped to the CSL variable container-title. Unpublished conference presentations may have container titles (the title of the session), so the presence of a proceedings title is not a reliable indicator of published status.

Can you give a link to one of these conference papers you are trying to cite?

chengiz5

You've ignored the Conference Proceedings Online section. The point is not what you're saying, the point is that if the Title is there, it should be output. Nowhere does it say that if there are no page nos. the title shouldnt be output. I'm sorry but if you're ignoring that the commit was wrong, and want to be proven right, I am taking no further part in this discussion. I'll continue working with the older style.

bwiernik

Can you give a link to one of these papers you’re talking about? It doesn’t sound like the paper is in a proceedings, but just a conference paper now online. The format for such items is:

Conference Paper Online
Basic Format:
J. K. Author. (Date). Title. Presented at Abbreviated Conf. title. [Type of Medium]. Available: site/path/file

adamsmith

(Note you'll want to make a copy of the style and change title & id to prevent Zotero from auto-updating it with the new version)