Changes to APA7 and Citation Compass for Norwegian Norsk bokmål and Norsk nynorsk

haraldaa

The Norwegian APA7 Manual editorial team has now finalized the work on the Norwegian version of APA7. The only difference from the English version that affects the style made by Zotero is that in APA7 Norwegian, (including both Norsk bokmål and Norsk nynorsk) when there are two or more authors in the bibliography there should be no comma before the ampersand between the second last and the last author.

In English: Christian, B., & Griffiths, T.
In Norwegian: Christian, B. & Griffiths, T.

Could this be added to APA7 to make the Norwegian version better? The same change to should also be made to the Citation Compass style (which is dependent on APA7 Norwegian) for Norsk bokmål and Norsk nynorsk if possible.

adamsmith

Unfortunately this requires a separate citation style at this time -- comma rules can't be set in/with locales. Pull requests would be welcome for this, not sure when someone here would get to this.

@bwiernik -- can you remind me what the discussions for CSL 1.1 are on this?

(I would suspect, btw., this is due to a misunderstanding of the rationale for the comma by the Norwegian team -- the comma frames the first Name/initial rather than separating the authors -- but of course I don't speak the language, so that's just a guess)

haraldaa

Thank you for the explanation about the status of editing styles.
Unfortunately it is not a misunderstanding by the Norwegian team, in lists in Norwegian list items are separated by comma but not between the second last and the last item, whether and or & is used.
I'll see if I can edit a copy of the style conforming to the Norwegian requirements and then endeavor to make a pull request.

adamsmith

in lists in Norwegian list items are separated by comma but not between the second last and the last item, whether and or & is used.

Right, that's quite common (same in German, Spanish, etc.). But that's not the reason for the comma in the example above: In English, there's no comma for a list of two items connected with and/& either. The comma is there to separate the first name out.

This intention is more obvious in Chicago style:
In footnotes you have

Adam Smith and Karl Marx, The Economy
In the Bibliography:
Smith, Adam, and Karl Marx, The Economy

But the exact same logic is used by APA

For the 6th edition, there was also a serial/Oxford comma at play for in-text citations with 3-5 authors, (Smith, Marx, & Weber) but those no longer exist, so that's moot. The only place where the serial comma is used for citations in APA 7 style is for items with multiple authors where the author right before the & is an institution -- and I'd argue that's sufficiently rare to ignore it
(in fact, the English APA CSL style gets this wrong for 2 authors: It will do "OECD, & Weber, M." instead of "OECD & Weber, M." in the bibliography).

bwiernik

@adamsmith CSL 1.1 won’t have separate bibliography formats by locale. That might come in CSL 1.2.

haraldaa

Are you saying that this is wrong in English APA7 as well:

(Christian & Griffiths, 2016, p. 45)

Bibliography
Christian, B., & Griffiths, T. (2016). Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions. Henry Holt and Co. http://a.co/7qGBZAk

The text above is copied from Zotero using APA7 English US inserted into a document. If I understand you correctly, the comma in the bibliography before & should NOT be there. If so, that is in agreement with the Norwegian version, but perhaps I have misunderstood you here?

adamsmith

No, I'm saying the comma is there _not_ because this is a list, but because the first name, B., is enclosed in commas, just as I've done in this sentence.

haraldaa

Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps I used the wrong term (list) in my example above, narrowing it down to another use case.

I am not a member of the Norwegian APA editorial team. However, because I want the Zotero styles for APA7 and Citation Compass to be as correct as possible I asked them whether there were any differences between the English and the Norwegian version of APA7 and they said the only difference was that comma is not used before & when listing several authors in the bibliography. I cannot override their decision. So it looks like a Norwegian version is needed for both APA7 and Citation Compass.

haraldaa

For the record, I have now made one pull request for APA7 Norwegian and one for Citation Compass Norwegian.
Thanks for following up.

bwiernik

@adamsmith We don't have any changes planned for localization of delimiter rules in CSL 1.1. We have a plan to permit the delimiter punctuation to be localized automatically, but nothing about delimiter rules.

haraldaa

Thanks to all who helped creating the "Norsk Apa-manual (author-date)" and "Norsk Apa-manual (note)" styles, really appreciated!

haraldaa

I have received a question if it would be possible to edit the names of these two styles to include the APA version in the name. That would be something like "Norsk Apa-manual (APA7th) (author-date)" and "Norsk Apa-manual (APA7th) (note)" or something similar.

adamsmith

Sure -- we'd want this just in the title (no changes to id and filename) and as (APA 7th edition)

haraldaa

That is correct.

adamsmith

I was implying that this will happen faster as a PR ;)

bwiernik

(But already done now)

haraldaa

Excellent

haraldaa

Just to make sure that I did not misunderstand you again. You meant that my request is already taken care of and there is nothing for me to do.

bwiernik

https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/pull/5098

haraldaa

Thank you, then I did not misunderstand you, only adamsmith :)