What folders contain this item?

divilian

One of the things I love about Zotero is how you can have the same item in multiple different folders simultaneously. (Often a paper applies to more than one conceptual topic, and I also maintain a "to read" folder of things I haven't gotten to yet. So it isn't rare for me to have the same paper in three or four different folders.)

What I'd like, though, is two things:
1) A way to click on an item and somehow see all of the folders in which that item is currently stored. (I'd like to know all the places I've filed it.)
2) A confirmation -- "do you really want to delete this?" -- when I try to delete an item from the *last* place it exists. (In other words, if an item exists in three folders, and I delete it from one of them, I should not get the confirmation. Neither should I when I delete the second. But when I try to delete it from the last place it occurs, and all my notes and attachments are therefore about to be erased, I would like the confirmation.)

Rintze

@1: http://www.zotero.org/support/collections#identifying_the_collections_an_item_is_in

@2: Even if you remove an item from all collections, it will still exist in your library.
http://www.zotero.org/support/collections#removing_an_item_from_a_collection

adamsmith

1) already exists http://www.zotero.org/support/kb/collections_containing_an_item
2) isn't necessary because it doesn't have the function you think it has. The item continues to exists in the library. If you delete it from there you do indeed get a confirmation dialogue.

EDIT. pfff. 57secs....

amacom73

While I deeply admire the Zotero devs and community and the very high-level discussion that goes on here from the standpoint of data and metadata architecture and usage, the Zotero user interface invites this sort of confusion by using folders as the collection icons (and as the multiple-item status bar icon) even though collections do not behave like folders. User interface metaphors give tons of implicit usage hints and the collection/folder mismatch is a doozy. Changing it to blank white squares would be clearer for having zero meaning compared to folders which convey an imprecise, even incorrect, meaning.

This is made worse by the fact that the word "collection" does not imply anything particular about usage as, say, calling it a "playlist" would. Even though playlist would be incorrect from a media standpoint, it would be more accurate and informative from a usage standpoint. Not that I'm advocating calling collections playlists.

adamsmith

while you may well be right, this is a strange place to bring this up, because wheezepuppet clearly doesn't think that collections are folders (in spite of him/her calling them folders)- he is explicitly happy about the fact that they aren't ("have the same item in multiple different folders simultaneously").

I do agree that the logo is a bit confusing. I don't think squares would do, because you do want people to intuitively drag things around onto collections, between collections etc. But this is worth thinking about.

amacom73

Yeah, I agree it's a weird place to post this. The UI issue has been bugging me for awhile, but not quite enough for me to initiate a new thread, and wheezepuppet's post reactivated the brain cells where that peeve lives.

OTOH, I think wheezepuppet's concern (#2) about deleting an item from the last collection in which it exists is due, in part, to the mistaken notion that items actually exist in collections as opposed to just being listed there. Nobody would ask that question about an iTunes playlist (sorry to put words in your mouth wheezepuppet, obviously I'm guessing here, and you should feel free to correct me).

As for white boxes, I should clarify--that wasn't a real suggestion, but an example to suggest that no usage clues are better than incorrect usage cues.

Bionatsci

I agree that collections are probably more similar to playlists than folders from the usage (and, I would guess, the programming) perspective. However there is one critical difference, which is that collections are hierarchical (please feel free to correct me if anyone knows of a media player with hierarchical playlists) .

I don't feel that this is a minor issue in terms of this discussion. Not having hierarchical organisation would make collections far less usable for me - I currently have 50 collections going up to four levels deep.

I don't feel it is a fantastic idea but the best icon I can think of at the moment is the simple bullet point. As someone who uses outlining software and similar techniques when taking paper notes this image immediately suggests hierarchical organisation, collapsible lists and drag-ability, all of which are important features of collections. The main feature that is not suggested by bullet points is that of collections as containers for items, however I would have thought that that would be reasonably obvious as otherwise collections are devoid of useful purpose.