Problem combining Authors

jonotrain

I've seen many threads on issues combining authors whose names have been spelt differently - but my problem is slightly different.

The answer in all those threads is to manually change the name to the same spelling, but if I do this after I have cited two works by an author with same last name different first name, even after I make the spellings match zotero continues to treat them as two different authors. Is there a way to force it to combine the authors?

djross3

I'm not certain, but can this be fixed by 'resetting' the document? You can try a few tricks for this:
1. Refresh the Zotero citations and see if that helps.
2. Copy/paste into a new document and refresh.
3. Change the citation style to something else and refresh, then switch back and refresh again.
(Before doing any of that, I'd suggest saving a backup of your document!)

Sometimes earlier settings/properties are maintained until a full reset occurs, and in order to save time processing Zotero doesn't automatically do a full reset except with major changes. It might automatically catch up also if you were to keep using this and it had to decide about for example a new citation from one of the authors.

(A less likely possibility is that you have an orphaned citation in your document no longer connected to your library, but that doesn't sound like what you described.)

If none of that can work, of course you should be able to go back through all of those citations manually and replace them (perhaps delete them then replace, rather than just editing), but that probably isn't necessary if you try the steps above.

dstillman

There's no such thing as a "reset" of the document.

This is just like any other change to metadata, and it should update all the citations in the document when you click Refresh.

There are two main reasons why it wouldn't:

1) The citations are actually no longer linked to items in Zotero — e.g., because you deleted items in Zotero instead of merging them. You can verify that by clicking in a citation, clicking Add/Edit Citation, clicking the blue bubble, and seeing whether an "Open in My Library" button appears, as shown in Customizing Cites.

2) You previously edited the citation text directly and, when Zotero prompted you, chose to keep your edits instead of allowing Zotero to continue updating the citation automatically. If you click Add/Edit Citation on the citation, it will tell you that and ask if you want to revert your changes.

(There are also general document debugging steps, but those aren't usually necessary unless you're getting some sort of error from Zotero due to a corrupted citation.)

djross3

There's no such thing as a "reset" of the document.

Unless you're suggesting different terminology, that's not entirely true. Sometimes just refreshing once doesn't completely reset everything. There can be some echoes of old settings. It's rare, but when something buggy like this happens, it's usually fixed it for me. Often switching between citation styles is the most helpful method, if simply refreshing doesn't work.
Of course I can't provide any more specific evidence or conditions for this, but more than a handful of times I've had something odd about a document fixed by more than just refreshing. And sometimes it seems like it eventually catches up if you just keep using the document. As I said, "echoes" of old settings. This happens for me sometimes, I believe, in the same situation as the OP, where I've updated something in my library and it doesn't immediately get caught in the normal refreshing of cites in a Word document (for example, the bibliography will keep being generated with the wrong information that I've already fixed in my library).

Sorry if my answer here is seen as disruptive or not a standard response. I'm just commenting on what's worked for me. And since this sort of "echo" doesn't ever seem to be permanent*, I don't see it as a big problem.
[*The exception would be if, as you said, the cite gets de-linked from your library.]

dstillman

I'm just telling you (and, more importantly, @jonotrain) how the plugin works — a Refresh should update all citations in the document that aren't in one of the two states I list above.

As I say, there are document debugging steps that can be used if something isn't working properly, and those include trying to change the citation style. But it's incorrect to suggest that there's some sort of standard expected situation where changes wouldn't be applied on Refresh. That would be a bug, and we'd want people to follow the debugging steps in full so that they could isolate the problem in a copy of the document and report it so that we can fix it going forward.

djross3

a Refresh should update all citations in the document that aren't in one of the two states I list above.

Yes, it should, but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes refreshing twice does, not always.

As I say, there are document debugging steps that can be used if something isn't working properly, and those include trying to change the citation style. But it's incorrect to suggest that there's some sort of standard expected situation where changes wouldn't be applied on Refresh. That would be a bug, and we'd want people to follow the debugging steps in full so that they could isolate the problem in a copy of the document and report it so that we can fix it going forward.

Yes, you're right about that, and I didn't mean to interfere. But personally if I can 'reset' it by swapping out the style for another and going back, I'm fine with that and wouldn't want to bother you with debugging it if it's that easy to fix on my own. I'll try to remember to post next time this happens though if that helps improve Zotero!!

dstillman

Sometimes refreshing twice does, not always.

No. Please let us explain how the plugin works. This is code — not magic.

Refreshing refreshes. A second Refresh run is exactly the same as the first. There's literally no code-based difference. If it seems like a second refresh does something different, it's likely the first just was taking a while to run and it would've done the exact same thing if you had waited.

If something isn't working the way it's supposed to, we'd want a reproducible report of that, with a Debug ID, so that we can fix it instead of having people waste time with superstitions. But that starts with being clear about how the plugin is meant to work.

djross3

(I understand how it's supposed to work. I'm sorry for any confusion.)
I will gladly let you know if I encounter this in a way that allows a Debug ID.

jonotrain

Thank you @djross3 ! - Refreshing as @dstillman suggested did not work (I had tried that already) but your advice of copying and pasting the text into another document did!

dstillman

If you still have the original document and can still reproduce the problem there, it'd be great if you could send an excerpt with which the problem occurs to support@zotero.org with a link to this thread. See the last step on the Debugging Broken Documents page for instructions to very quickly narrow down the document to a part that's broken.

Allentl

@dstillman I have been struggling with the same bug that @jonotrain and @djross3 have brought up.

Thank you @jonotrain and @djross3, your solution of changing citation style and changing it back worked things out.

@dstillman there is a difference between how code is 'supposed' to work, and how it works. Code is not magic. Please let your users explain to you how your plugin works, because they will see many more instantiations of its behaviour than you will.

The plugin does not work like you (or I!) think it should. You should listen to your users, not gaslight them. We are trying to help you and all of us to improve this software we love.

I would be happy to work with you in squashing this bug.

adamsmith

dstillman is literally asking for specific information to help troubleshoot and fix this. If you want to help, you can provide those.

dstillman

Also:

Thank you @jonotrain and @djross3, your solution of changing citation style and changing it back worked things out.

This is in the official debugging steps I linked to — which also provide instructions for helping us actually fix any problem that the steps fix. My objection was to the suggestion that there's some sort of undocumented "reset" process to clear "echoes of old settings" that one is meant to follow to whenever something is amiss, without actually providing us with any information that might fix the problem.

Allentl

The error arises when fixing errors arising from single authors having multiple names/ spellings. When names are corrected in Zotero, a refresh fixes the bibliography, such that all author names are correct, but the in-line citations retain initials or first names, even though those entries are no longer in Zotero itself.

As with above users, swapping citation format and back fixes the issue.

djross3

Yes, I have similarly had issues when updating authors. One oddity is that sometimes the new bibliography will be generated with the right information, but without resorting the entries. I've only seen that once or twice, so I can't provide any debug info.

dstillman

@Allentl: This works in general, so to fix the problem you're reporting, we would need steps to reproduce it in a new document with new dummy items and/or an excerpt of the original document from before you fixed it (which you could send to support@zotero.org with a link to this thread).

Allentl

@dstillman this is a complex enough interaction that I cannot consistently reproduce it - sometimes citations refresh properly, sometimes they do not. A Google search though shows that this is at least not a super rare bug.

If I am able to consistently reproduce the error I will write up a bug report for you to look at.