Possible for an option called 'Illustration'?

hmdan

Dear Zotero,
Might it be a possibility for an option called 'Illustration', and then fields for:
Book, page no, Publisher etc. ?

At the moment, there seems to be only 'Billed/Skulptur' (Picture/skulpture), and there is really no where to enter publisher, name of book etc.

bwiernik

Enter it as 'Billed/Skulptur' (‘Artwork’ in English Zotero). Enter the other information in Extra (the field at the bottom) like this:
Container title: Book title
Publisher: Publisher
Page: 123
etc.

hmdan

Hello bwiernik
I do not know if your Zotero offers more options than mine, but I cannot get it to work.
If I fill in the 'Extra' box as you suggest --> go to the desired place in my text --> find the entry in question and asks Zotero to enter it in the document --> nothing in the 'Extra' is entered in my document in the list of Illustration/references. Nothing that tells from where the illustration derives/name of book, edition, etc.
Can you get it to work if you try?

bwiernik

What exactly have you entered in Extra? It needs to be exactly the format I showed above (i.e., "Container title" followed by a colon and a space, then the title of the book, etc.):
Container title: Book title

See here for more details: https://zotero.org/support/kb/item_types_and_fields#citing_fields_from_extra

hmdan

Hello bwiernik,
I admit to not having understood that it had to be so exact. So, I have made another attempt entering:
Container title: Pickwick Papers
Publisher: Macmillan
Page: 160

You are right in that the title of the book and the publisher were included. I apologise. However, the page number was not included. I have checked. There is only one space between the colon and the 160.
Is there a way that I can include the page number?

bwiernik

What style are you using?

hmdan

I am not certain what you mean by style.
I use 'Note font size 12', 'Font size Bigger'.
I have chosen 'Billede/Skulptur'.
Layout 'standard view.'
I have chosen: 'Collection pane' + 'Item pane'.

bwiernik

No, I mean what citation style are you using in your document?

DWL-SDCA

@hmdan Although I see that you are a long-time Zotero user, Please take time to read the web documents at:

https://www.zotero.org/support/

Specifically, read the Quick Start Guide and everything under Using Zotero. These pages will quickly explain the basics of Zotero and bibliographic citation and then help you to advance to more sophisticated topics.

I have used Zotero for more than 10 years but I still find the Using Zotero guides very helpful when I'm about to use a function I haven't used in awhile.

hmdan

@bwiernik:
Ahh ... It is Chicago Manual style 17th ed. (Author date).
And it is in the list of references that the page number do not appear.
Other references (books, articles etc) do have page number.

hmdan

@DWL-SDCA,
As you said, I have been using Zotero for some years now, and I have read the Quick Start Guide a couple of times before. I did it again just now to see if I have missed something.
I still cannot see anything in the guide which

a) helps me to create/generate an entry for an illustration like it is possible with, for example, book, article, interview etc.

b) There is nothing in the guide about entering information in the extra as a kind of programming like bwiernik is very kindly teaching me now, and which I find very helpful (Thank you @bwiernik).

c) I also have another problem which I cannot find mentioned in the Guide either. When you enter authors in an English text whose name starts with fx Æ,Ø, Å, then they are placed wrongly in the list of references. 'Ø' is e.g. placed between N and P, but it is actually the 2nd last letter in the alphabet.
I had not noticed this till it was too late, and I was marked one grade down for not knowing the order of the alphabet. The only way I know of solving this is to break the citation link, but you can only do this as the very last thing. This is dangerous as you might forget it, as the deadline approaches fast. Or, if you do remember it, but have to make a last minute chance in the text, then you have to be careful to remember to update endnotes, list of references before you upload again. So, I am very interested in learning if there is a way around this without breaking the citation link?

hmdan

@bwiernik:
Do you know of a manual that shows you the codes for placing in the extra field?
How did you learn about the possibilities in the extra field?

bwiernik

See here for details https://Zotero.org/support/kB/item_types_and_fields#citing_fields_from_extra

For the style, download it from here:
https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/raw/master/chicago-author-date.csl

Then open it in a text editor like Notepad or TextEdit. Delete “graphic” from line 311 and add “graphic” to the list of types in lines 323 and 337. Then change the style title and ID and install into Zotero. Basic instructions for style editing here: https://www.zotero.org/support/dev/citation_styles/style_editing_step-by-step

@adamsmith It seems like `graphic` and `figure` might reasonably be expected to have page numbers like `chapter`. Would we want to edit the official styles?

adamsmith

If I'm understanding correctly, this is about an illustration or figure in a book? Chicago Manual seems pretty clear (https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/book/ed17/part3/ch14/psec158.html ) that the right way to cite that is to cite the book and add the figure/illustration information as a locator. That also sounds like the right approach for me in terms of pointing readers to the source.

Given that, I'm not super inclined to put something in the style -- or am I missing something?

hmdan

@bwiernik:
Thank you so much. I will study what you have forwarded me. Thank you for taking the time :-D

@adamsmith:
It is about illustrations in a book. I wanted to have title of illustration and the page number included.
If I used 'picture/skulpture' there was not the fields I desired.
I had a search for 'locators' and found this page: https://www.zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_usage_classic.

I will have a close look at that as well. Thank you.

(Now I only have the problem with the Danish ÆØÅ left :-D )

bwiernik

By locators, what adamsmith means was just entering the item as a Book or Chapter (whichever contains the illustration) and then refer to a specific page number when you cite the item in text. See here for details on adding the page number to citations: https://Zotero.org/support/word_processor_plugin_usage#customizing_cites

hmdan

@bwiernik:
Thank you. I will do that. I am used to doing that.
And once again, thank you opening my mind to the world of 'code-entering' in the extra field.

Alrich

I am using screen captures and illustrations from image searches.

When I drop them into Zotero, I do not get the info dialog, which I need so I can enter author, source, date of capture, etc. I read here that the format of the info box is driven to some extent by style requirements. Which I respect.

But with new media we are in a new universe and the old style manuals need to catch up. I plan to provide citations that are useful and conform as much as possible with the style, but how can I cite images if I cannot even enter information into the logical fields, because the info box is not available? I can't even use the "extra" system since I do not get a standard info page when I put my image in Zotero.

It seems there ought to be standard image citations and the fields for these could be shown in the info dialog. It is interesting that when I select "item type", "image" is not a choice, and I am using a lot of these and really need a way to document the sources of my images. Thank you.

dstillman

@Alrich: That just sounds like a misunderstanding. If you drag something other than a recognizable PDF, you have to create a parent item manually.

https://www.zotero.org/support/adding_items_to_zotero#adding_pdfs_and_other_files

Alrich

Thank you, dstillman, I will explore the functions you have identified.
I wonder if programmers are exploring the implementation of automatically invoking the parent item dialog (what we get when we use the +) upon drag and drop of any item. This would be more intuitive, and further reduce work for the researcher and writer.
Also, Although there are several dozen item types, "artwork" seems to be as close to a photograph, a screen-capture or a graph, as Zotero gets. If they are not different in the data associated with them, perhaps a more general term could be used, "image". But I would be grateful for all of these variants of the image to be available. It will make sorting them easier. Thank you for your consideration.