Upgrade StorageDe Buck - dropping particles in author last name ('in', 'van', 'de' in lastname)
Goodday
Regretfully, I have noticed a problem with citations and bibliography in the Buck citation style with the dropping particles in author last name (f.i. Dutch and German names). I will try to explain the problem:
I tried the following two ways to register these particles in Zotero (the first way is the correct way according to Dutch language regulations):
Registration of Author in Zotero:
1) last name: Sas ; firstname: N.C.F. van
2) Last name: Van Zanden; firstname: J. L.
Each registration has its own problems, as I will show with these exemples:
--- examples ----
In this text I have them both refereced twice as to see the effect.
[text xxx]1 [xxxx]2 [xxx]3 [xxx]4
This results the following citations:
1. N.C.F. van Sas, De metamorfose van Nederland. Van oude orde naar moderniteit, 1750-1900 (Amsterdam: Amsterdam University Press 2004).
2 J. L. Van Zanden, ‘De economie van Holland in de periode 1650-1805: groei of achteruitgang? Een overzicht van bronnen, problemen en resultaten’, BMGN 4 (1987) 562–609.
3 Sas, Metamorfose.
4 Van Zanden, ‘Economie van Holland’.
And in the bibliography they appear as:
Sas, N.C.F. van, De metamorfose van Nederland. Van oude orde naar moderniteit, 1750-1900 (Amsterdam: Amsterdam University Press 2004).
Van Zanden, J. L., ‘De economie van Holland in de periode 1650-1805: groei of achteruitgang? Een overzicht van bronnen, problemen en resultaten’, BMGN 4 (1987) 562–609.
--------------
Citations:
First reference:
* The correct way is exemple 1.
* Exemple 2 schould have no capital V in 'van'
Second reference:
* The correct way is exemple 4
* Exemple 3 is wrong because 'Van' is lacking.
So each way of registration in Zotero gives a problem, either in the first or in the second reference.
Bibliography:
* The first registratieon [SAS] leads to a correct result in the bibliography.
* The second registration results is an error in the bibliography (‘van’ should be after the authors last name and the name should alphabetically come under Z instead of under V).
To conclude:
* When using registration 1: I will have to correct all citations exept the first one.
* When using registration 2: I will have to correct only the first citation and the bibliography.
Therefore registration 2 will result in less corrections. Regrettably registriation 2 means that the referecences in the Zotero database are under 'V' and searching for the last name (i.e. Zanden) is more difficult. To make things more complicated: when an authorname with a dropping particle is second author the name should be entered in the Zotero databas as registration 1.
I have no idea how complicated it is to fix this problem, but it would be much appreceated if it could be solved....
E. Boersma
NB
I am using: Zotero 5.0.65; Windows 10; Ms Office 2019 professional. As far as I can see, my DE Buck style is up to date.
Regretfully, I have noticed a problem with citations and bibliography in the Buck citation style with the dropping particles in author last name (f.i. Dutch and German names). I will try to explain the problem:
I tried the following two ways to register these particles in Zotero (the first way is the correct way according to Dutch language regulations):
Registration of Author in Zotero:
1) last name: Sas ; firstname: N.C.F. van
2) Last name: Van Zanden; firstname: J. L.
Each registration has its own problems, as I will show with these exemples:
--- examples ----
In this text I have them both refereced twice as to see the effect.
[text xxx]1 [xxxx]2 [xxx]3 [xxx]4
This results the following citations:
1. N.C.F. van Sas, De metamorfose van Nederland. Van oude orde naar moderniteit, 1750-1900 (Amsterdam: Amsterdam University Press 2004).
2 J. L. Van Zanden, ‘De economie van Holland in de periode 1650-1805: groei of achteruitgang? Een overzicht van bronnen, problemen en resultaten’, BMGN 4 (1987) 562–609.
3 Sas, Metamorfose.
4 Van Zanden, ‘Economie van Holland’.
And in the bibliography they appear as:
Sas, N.C.F. van, De metamorfose van Nederland. Van oude orde naar moderniteit, 1750-1900 (Amsterdam: Amsterdam University Press 2004).
Van Zanden, J. L., ‘De economie van Holland in de periode 1650-1805: groei of achteruitgang? Een overzicht van bronnen, problemen en resultaten’, BMGN 4 (1987) 562–609.
--------------
Citations:
First reference:
* The correct way is exemple 1.
* Exemple 2 schould have no capital V in 'van'
Second reference:
* The correct way is exemple 4
* Exemple 3 is wrong because 'Van' is lacking.
So each way of registration in Zotero gives a problem, either in the first or in the second reference.
Bibliography:
* The first registratieon [SAS] leads to a correct result in the bibliography.
* The second registration results is an error in the bibliography (‘van’ should be after the authors last name and the name should alphabetically come under Z instead of under V).
To conclude:
* When using registration 1: I will have to correct all citations exept the first one.
* When using registration 2: I will have to correct only the first citation and the bibliography.
Therefore registration 2 will result in less corrections. Regrettably registriation 2 means that the referecences in the Zotero database are under 'V' and searching for the last name (i.e. Zanden) is more difficult. To make things more complicated: when an authorname with a dropping particle is second author the name should be entered in the Zotero databas as registration 1.
I have no idea how complicated it is to fix this problem, but it would be much appreceated if it could be solved....
E. Boersma
NB
I am using: Zotero 5.0.65; Windows 10; Ms Office 2019 professional. As far as I can see, my DE Buck style is up to date.
The second citing will have a 'v' in stead of the capital 'V' it should have (as in citing 4) while it will still come under the letter v in the bibliography.
The style uses
demote-non-dropping-particle="sort-only", so it should ignore the lowercase "van" for sorting in the bibliography. This setting hasn't changed since the style was created six years ago, so it can't be an outdated style.How can I see if I have the Propachi plugin? I have no idea what that is. And how do I see which citation processor I have?
Under 'add on manager ' I just have the word processor 5.0.12.SA.5.0.65 and Zotero LibreOffice itegration 5.0.14.SA.5.0.65, both updated March 27m 2019.
How was your van Maris sorted in the bibliography?
In CSL-speak, a "dropping particle" is entered at the end of the given-name field in Zotero, and behaves in the way "van Sas" does in your examples. For dropping particles (as the term is used in the CSL Specification), that is expected behavior.
From your description, it sounds like you want what CSL defines as "non-dropping particles" in these cases. For that, the particle must be entered in lowercase in front of the family name. Looking for an instruction page, I discovered that I had only half-completed a description of these conventions that Rintze asked me to prepare, long ago. But that is the way it works. Non-dropping particles must be placed in lowercase in front of the family name.
From your description, it seems that the CSL/Zotero conventions may differ from Dutch language regulations. If that is the case, the CSL conventions nonetheless apply to CSL input.
When the non-dropping particle "van" is entered in lowercase before the family name, Rintze notes that it sorts by the family name, ignoring the particle. This follows the settings on the de Buck style, and seems to be correct.
So it looks like the single discrepancy is that the initial particle is not being capitalized when it is the first-occurring letter in a citation or bibliography entry.
Before I move to change that, I'll need to two things:
Author in Zotero
1) last name: Sas ; firstname: N.C.F. van
2) Last name: Van Zanden; firstname: J. L.
3) Last name second author: Velde, Henk te or Rooy, Piet de
References as:
xxxx1 xxxx2 xxx3 xxx4 xxx5 XXX 6
1. N.C.F. van Sas, De metamorfose van Nederland. Van oude orde naar moderniteit, 1750-1900 (Amsterdam: Amsterdam University Press 2004).
2 J. L. Van Zanden, ‘De economie van Holland in de periode 1650-1805: groei of achteruitgang? Een overzicht van bronnen, problemen en resultaten’, BMGN 4 (1987) 562–609.
3 Sas, Metamorfose.
4 Remieg Aerts en Piet de Rooy ed., Geschiedenis van Amsterdam. Deel III. Hoofdstad in aanbouw, 1813-1900 (Amsterdam 2006); Remieg Aerts en Henk te Velde ed., De stijl van de burger. Over Nederlandse burgerlijke cultuur vanaf de middeleeuwen (Kampen 1998) [geraadpleegd 27 november 2016].
5 Van Zanden, ‘Economie van Holland’.
6 Malcolm Vale, The princely court. Medieval courts and culture in North-West Europe 1270-1380 (Oxford: Oxford University Press 2001).
Bibliography:
Aerts, Remieg, en Piet de Rooy ed., Geschiedenis van Amsterdam. Deel III. Hoofdstad in aanbouw, 1813-1900 (Amsterdam 2006).
---, en Henk te Velde ed., De stijl van de burger. Over Nederlandse burgerlijke cultuur vanaf de middeleeuwen (Kampen 1998) [geraadpleegd 27 november 2016].
Sas, N.C.F. van, De metamorfose van Nederland. Van oude orde naar moderniteit, 1750-1900 (Amsterdam: Amsterdam University Press 2004).
Vale, Malcolm, The princely court. Medieval courts and culture in North-West Europe 1270-1380 (Oxford: Oxford University Press 2001).
Van Zanden, J. L., ‘De economie van Holland in de periode 1650-1805: groei of achteruitgang? Een overzicht van bronnen, problemen en resultaten’, BMGN 4 (1987) 562–609.
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a) Sorting bibliography.
As you can see, in my bibliography Van Zanden appears under 'V'(after Vale). Van Sas comes under 'S' because, van is part of the firstname.
Second names in citations [ref 6] and bibliography are ok.
==> If you wish I can mail you this exemple as a short word doc.
b)
It is possible (likely) that I use the name 'dropping particles' not correctly.
But 'van' according to Dutch and German customs should appear as:
- in first reference: N.C.F. van Sas
- in second reference: Van Sas
- and in bibliography: Sas, N.C.F. van
As De Buck is a Dutch style - for which I am grateful that it is in Zotere - it should behave according to Dutch language customs. But I see it is a difficult problem.
I hope I answered all your questions?
- in first reference: N.C.F. van Sas
- in second reference: Van Sas
- and in bibliography: Sas, N.C.F. van
In terms of the CSL rules on name particles, this pattern is achieved if the
demote-non-dropping-particleattribute is set todisplay-and-sort. So the question is whether that setting should be changed in the style.@Rintze: The style documentation link just points at this discussion, which doesn't cover the particles issue. Will it be okay to go ahead and make this change, as @EBoersma was also a participant in that original design discussion?
"display-and-sort" seems like the right way to go if "last name: van Sas; firstname: N.C.F." should show up as "Sas, N.C.F. van", but while De Buck might require this, "sort-only" is also used in Dutch (see e.g. the Dutch journal article https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289124417_Paper_in_Nederlands_Tijdschrift_voor_Geneeskunde):
According to the journal Nederlands Tijdschrift voor Geneeskunde: 'references should follow the standards summarized in the NLM’s International Committee of Medical Journal Editors (ICMJE)'
See 'Uniforme voorschriften' (p18) on https://www.ntvg.nl/auteurs
sort-onlypattern ("De Wert," listed in the reference list with the particle attached but, if the reference list were sorted by name, then sorting on "Wert.") Rintze is simply pointing out that Dutch publishing practices vary; and both the sample article and the guidelines behind it are pretty clear illustrations of it.So the point here is that we didn't make a mistake with the sort and display choices when the style was created. Rather, some information on requirements was simply lacking. You have provided additional information here, and the de Buck style can be adjusted to produce the pattern of output that you describe. That seems like a win.
[as is listing as Wert, de J. under 'W'].
Both listings are ok, whichever is easiest ... as long as it is under 'W' [see my point a below]
just to recapitulate:
Rintze sugested the correct registration in Zotero as : "last name: van Zanden; firstname: J.L." [ 'van' with lowercase v]. This is fine, but gives the following issues:
a) my example from yesterday shows 'Van Zanden' is sorted under 'V' instead of 'Z' .
b) first reference will be: 'J. L. van Zanden'; => this is correct
second reference will be: 'van Zanden'. => should be: 'Van Zanden' [capital V]. [see my example van Sas]
c) it would be 'nice to have' last name "Van/van Zanden" in the Zotero database sorted under 'Z' too.
Thanks for any ajustments you can make, that would certainly be a win.
a) When a leading particle is capitalized in the family field, it is not treated as a particle, but as a fixed part of the family name. That is the cause of the sort behavior you are currently getting. It is a matter of how the particle is entered, not how it is printed.
b) No. When the style is adjusted with
demote-non-dropping-particle="display-and-sort", the particle (if correctly entered in lowercase at the front of the family name field) will be capitalized in the second reference. I tested this before posting above.c) We should avoid loosening the rules for recognizing particle as particles unless there is a compelling need to do so. Doing so for particles generally would open a risk of false positives. Making special exceptions (say for "Van" only, or only in particular item languages, or style locales) adds unnecessary complexity. Those are both reasons for keeping things as they are.
Anyway, I'll push a change to the particle formatting method on the de Buck style. After the change is made, I will post back here so you can check to see whether it performs as expected.
(Edit: Changed "sorting method" to "particle formatting method," for clarity and accuracy.)
*In Belgian:
The way a Belgian surname is written depends on its registeration in the population register. If the surname is recorded as Van der Meeren, that is always the correct spelling in Belgium, whether the first name precedes it or not.
=> Correct are: Patsy Van der Meeren, P. Van der Meeren, Van der Meeren.
But: If a Belgian surname is recorded in lowercase: spelling is according Dutch rules.
*In Dutch:
Prefixes (f.i. van, de, der) are written in lowercase if preceded by another part of the name (such as the first name or initials). => Correct are: Isa de Jong, I.B. de Jong.
If not prefixed by first name of initials it is written as: De Jong [capital D]
Based on 'Onze Taal', an authority on Dutch language rules: https://onzetaal.nl/taaladvies/hoofdletters-in-namen-patsy-van-der-meeren-patsy-van-der-meeren/
I think (but I am not the expert) that following Dutch rules in Zotero will also result in a correct spelling of Belgian names.