Naming of Chicago Output styles

scot
These are the three kinds of Chicago Output styles, and their results using quick-copy to clipboard:

(A) Chicago Manual of Style (Author-Date):

Gradl, Hans-Georg. 2005. Zwischen Arm Und Reich: Das Lukanische Doppelwerk in Leserorientierter Und Textpragmatischer Perspektive. Würzburg: Echter.

(italics appear for the title if pasted into a word processor)

(B) If I use Chicago MS (Note without Bibliography) I get this:

Gradl, Hans-Georg. Zwischen Arm Und Reich: Das Lukanische Doppelwerk in Leserorientierter Und Textpragmatischer Perspektive. Würzburg: Echter, 2005.

(C) If I specify Chicago MS (Note with bibliography), I get:

1. Hans-Georg Gradl, Zwischen Arm Und Reich: Das Lukanische Doppelwerk in Leserorientierter Und Textpragmatischer Perspektive (Würzburg: Echter, 2005).

The naming of these is a little confusing to me. If others have also found it so, perhaps it would be useful to rename them to something like this:

(A) Chicago Manual of Style (Author-Date method) Reference List
[the CMS uses the term reference-list]
(B) Chicago Manual of Style (foot/endnote method) Bibliography List
(C) Chicago Manual of Style (foot/endnote method) Note citation

Also: Would it make sense to drop the numbering from (C)? Putting it in a foot- (or end-) note means usually that you are letting the word processor take care of the numbering.

And: could it be that multiple selections just copy the bibliographic notes as so many sentences, as you'd see it if you added multiple references to a note. Now you get separate paragraphs, like this:

1. Roman Garrison, The Significance of Theophilus As Luke's Reader (Lewiston, N.Y: Edwin Mellen Press, 2004).

2. Kenneth Duncan Litwak, Echoes of Scripture in Luke-Acts: Telling the History of God's People Intertextually (London: T&T Clark International, 2005).

3. Hans-Georg Gradl, Zwischen Arm Und Reich: Das Lukanische Doppelwerk in Leserorientierter Und Textpragmatischer Perspektive (Würzburg: Echter, 2005).

Finally: I suppose it adds complexity to think of adding an easy way to alternately use (C) and another style, which would be called something like
'Chicago Manual of Style (foot/endnote method) Note citation--short titles'
for subsequent citations of the same source? I know that we'll ultimately be able to use Zotero's automatic citations to take care of that, but (1) I can't just now, since I frequently want to mix my own notes with citations in footnotes, which isn't possible just yet and (2) even after you have citations-within-footnotes (as opposed to citations-as-footnotes), I assume you want to have support for those who still need to use clipboard citation. Part of that support could be supporting us in using long and short citations at will without having to change preferences to do it. Of course, I can just delete the extra information from the long notes if need be.
  • bdarcus
    I don't have an opinion on the name issue, but would welcome feedback so I can adjust the CSL styles as needed to be more clear (if others agree it's a problem).
    Also: Would it make sense to drop the numbering from (C)? Putting it in a foot- (or end-) note means usually that you are letting the word processor take care of the numbering.
    Yes, definitely.
    Finally: I suppose it adds complexity to think of adding an easy way to alternately use (C) and another style, which would be called something like
    'Chicago Manual of Style (foot/endnote method) Note citation--short titles'
    for subsequent citations of the same source?
    If Zotero does not now do subsequent short forms of the citations, then that's just an implementation bug/missing feature. The CSL styles do define subsequent short forms, since it's really a feature of the style (rather than some user choice).
  • scot
    Ah, right. I was only dimly aware that these issues belonged to CSL, and that they were therefore a separate matter from the Zotero development. Any other opinions on the naming of the Chicago output styles?
  • bdarcus
    scot: it's not entirely separate in the sense that Zotero still needs to implement the feature if they haven't yet, and that this is a valid feature/enhancement request. I just wanted you to know that the design of the style language does cover it, and that shortening is supposed to happen automatically.
  • mrickma
    I think jounal names are another borderline issue between CSL and Zotero. So far I have been unable to get bibliography output with abbreviated journal names. I tried to modify a CSL style using emacs in nxml-mode - no way. Is it right that CSL currently does not allow for a short form of a container, i.e. the journal name ?
    When looking at cite.js in my current zotero.jar Zotero seems just to fill in publicationTitle for the title of a container. I did not find any provision for abbreviated journal names, perhaps I did not search hard enough.
    When you search this forum for "jounal name" and follow
    http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/297/standardising-journal-names/#Item_0
    bdarcus suggests "a simple web service lookup that ties issns, and short and long form titles". The best I could find is http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=journals
    When you search for 0270-6474 it returns the entry for J. Neurosci. When looking closer at the pISSN and eISSN of J Neurosci in my database Zotero had mixed them already. Another question, is it accepted to distinguish between title abbreviation and ISO abbreviation of journal names? Certainly, one needs both.
    Regards
    Michael
  • bdarcus
    Michael: you could use the title element with the "short" form attribute. But I don't know how Zotero deals with it.
  • Matthias
    As a relate note, w.r.t. journal information such as abbreviated journal names, ISSN numbers or links to publisher/journal web sites, I've found http://journalseek.net/ to be quite useful.
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