Parent child documentation

Cassandra2323

Sorry to post such an elementary question but I cannot find any documentation on the parent child feature. I gather it is different from the top-level vs. lower level distinction. I have some symposiums with a main article and comments. I'd like to cite the comments as separate articles but link them to the main article. Is this the sort of thing the feature is for? Did I just not find the documentation?

Many thanks

Isis

ahoward

The parent-child system isn't really designed with that in mind. It's just an organizational thing. Notes, files, links, etc., that relate to a given item are associated with it as child items or attachments (they mean the same thing). As far as citing the comments go, what form do those comments take? Are they items in and of themselves? If they're things you want to cite using Zotero, they would need to be a regular item (not an attachment). Lacking further details, I'm not sure what item type you would go with, though.

Cassandra2323

OK, if child=attachment that answers my question. (maybe for us literal minded folks the documentation should give a definition!) I think I will solve this problem by making them all related documents

thanks!!
Isis

dstillman

maybe for us literal minded folks the documentation should give a definition!

http://www.zotero.org/support/kb/library_items

Cassandra2323

I'd actually seen this, but wasn't sure because the terms "parent" and "top level" aren;t defined-thought they might be different categories. Again, I'm no doubt overly literal, but I'd suggest something like:

"The foundational elements in most Zotero libraries, regular items take the form of reference types—books, journal articles, manuscripts—and have associated bibliographic metadata (Title, Author, Publisher, etc.). Regular items, **also know as top level or parent items,** can be created manually by using the New Item drop-down menu or automatically by clicking the Zotero address bar icon to save from a supported website.

Regular items can only be top-level items. Attachments and notes can be added to regular items as child items**also known as lower level items(?)**"

Or maybe this isn;t correct, but then something which explains the relation between the different categories. Are regular items a type of parent, or is that a synonym?

noksagt

Or maybe this isn;t correct, but then something which explains the relation between the different categories. Are regular items a type of parent, or is that a synonym?

It is not correct. Not every top-level or parent item is a "regular item," nor does every "regular item" have children. You can store snapshots as top-level items as well.

ahoward

Actually, this is no longer the case. The data model was changed around with 2.0b3. Links and snapshots can only exist as child items. If you already had them in your library, I think they remain as they were, but you can no longer create them.

noksagt

Actually, this is no longer the case. The data model was changed around with 2.0b3. Links and snapshots can only exist as child items.

Sort of. The data model is the same. The snapshot and link buttons were removed from the toolbar. You can still select the plus drop down & link to or store files in the top-level & you can make top-level notes.

If you already had them in your library, I think they remain as they were

Yes, they do.

I think the text of the wiki is accurate when it says

Attachments can either be child attachments (attached to regular items) or standalone attachments (top-level items not attached to regular items). Attachments cannot have child items attached to them.

But we might-or-might-not append "Some attachments (snapshots and weblinks (?)) cannot be created as top-level items in Zotero 2.0b4."

Cassandra2323

My main concern was to add an explicit definition for "parent" and "top level"

"The foundational elements in most Zotero libraries, regular items take the form of reference types—books, journal articles, manuscripts—and have associated bibliographic metadata (Title, Author, Publisher, etc.). Regular items, can be created manually by using the New Item drop-down menu or automatically by clicking the Zotero address bar icon to save from a supported website.

Regular items are the most important type of top-level item. Top level items, also known as parent items, may also be notes or snapshots.

Regular items can only be top-level items. Attachments and notes can be added to any parent item, including regular items, as child items."

And what about bibliographic metadata-can it be attached to any top level item or only a regular item?

dstillman

And what about bibliographic metadata-can it be attached to any top level item or only a regular item?

As the page indicates, neither notes nor attachments take full bibliographic metadata. Whether they're top-level or child items doesn't make a difference.

Cassandra2323

Then I propose changing the very first sentence to the following summary:

A Zotero library is made up of “items”. Items can be either "parent" (top-level) items, or "child" items. Parent items can take several forms: they can be either regular items, attachments, or notes. Child items must be associated with a parent regular item, and can be either attachments or notes but not regular items. Only regular items have associated bibliographic metadata.

I realize that some of this information is already in the entry but think it might help to have a quick overview at the beginning.

thanks!

Isis