How to cite a book with its translation

andreacengia
edited January 15, 2018
Hello, I'm writing some articles whitch needs footnotes with original and translated version cites together.

For example:
N. Rosenberg, Inside the black box, Cambridge, Cambridge university press, 1982, tr. it. di G. Ferrara, Dentro la scatola nera: tecnologia ed economia, Bologna, Il Mulino, 1991, p. 58.

Explains of the cite:
Author: Rosenberg
Translator: Ferrara
Original Title: Inside the black box
Translate Title: Dentro la scatola nera
Original editor: Cambridge university press
Italian editor: Il Mulino
Original city: Cambridge
Italian city: Bologna
Original Year: 1982
Italian Year: 1991

Now I'm using this Style
https://www.zotero.org/styles/universita-di-bologna-lettere

1- So, how can I put all these fields together in Zotero?
2- Is the the style I'm using able to manage all these informations?

Thanks alot for your help
Best regards
Andrea
«1
  • bwiernik
    Enter the variables as follows (overall, enter the translation as the main fields for the item, and enter the original publication information in Extra as "original" variables):
    Author: Rosenberg
    Translator: Ferrara
    Title: Dentro la scatola nera
    Publisher: Il Mulino
    Place: Bologna
    Date: 1991

    In the Extra field, enter the remaining variables with the labels shown below (enter them exactly like this):
    original-title: Inside the black box
    original-publisher: Cambridge University Press
    original-publisher-place: Cambridge
    original-date: 1982

    The style you link to doesn't currently use any of the original publication variables, so it will only render the translation information. You would need to edit the style to add the other information. Style editing guidelines are here, or one of the other volunteers on these forums might be able to help you out (the style is based on Chicago, which is one of the most complex and not novice-friendly styles).

  • andreacengia
    Thank you indeed bwiernik.

    Unfortunately I am not able to self modify the style.

    But I have undestood the use of extrafield.

    I would like to ask in a new post if there is a volunteers who can help me for a new style.

    Kind regards
    Andrea
  • damnation
    Please don't make an extra post. I'll have a look at it over the next few days.
    Chicago is even complex for me after making 400 styles. Will take a while.
  • andreacengia
    Hi damnation,

    thanks alot.

    I'm try to build the request of a new style using the Zotero's guideline https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/wiki/Requesting-Styles

    If you can wait a day I'll post here the complete request (with examples for books and review).

    Thanks for your help and your patience.
  • damnation
    No, you don't need to do anything. I know what and how to do it. Just keep an eye on the thread here ;)
  • damnation
    Hey @andreacengia
    To double check, is this an "error" in the Bologna style, for a different other journal or just for your own use?

    Try this and let me know. didn't really test it. Right click and save as: https://gist.github.com/POBrien333/87f4d0665d95d48d9ef4a2af5f33e822/raw/af19df95655ae3405984baa3b10efbc59dcbc379/universita-di-bologna-lettere-modified.csl
  • andreacengia
    Hi damnation,

    Sorry I'm looking now about your last post. I don't know why but I have not recieved any notification about your last post.

    I'll try the styles in the afternoon.
    Thank you
  • andreacengia
    Hi damnation,

    I have just tryed the style and It seems with no problem for books or journals. What kind of error have you seen in the style?

    Thanks
    Andrea
  • andreacengia
    Hi damnation,

    Have you got any news about my issue?

    Thanks alot.
    Andrea
  • damnation
    What's the issue?
  • andreacengia
    Sorry,

    I've tryed your last style but, it seems to me like the old one because in the note I have not the original title of the text, and only the translated version. Here you can see what I'd like to obtain.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M2ZLBeYLVqXa4OfYuuBEyJowKEYw9u-YZBmIvuNBlfU

    Thanks
    Andrea



  • bwiernik
    The style linked above should print the original title. How do you have the original title entered in Zotero exactly?
  • andreacengia
    Hello bwiernik,

    I have placed it in the extra field. But I don't know exactly where I can put it. Thank you.
  • bwiernik
    You need to enter it in Extra exactly like this:

    original-title: Title
  • andreacengia
    Thank you bwiernik,

    It seems work well in the page footnote. I'm wondering if it is possible to show the same structure in the bibliographical note at the end of the document.
  • bwiernik
    @damnation Could you add the original macro conditional to the type macro, as well as the title-note macro?
  • damnation
    @andreacengia

    Is this a general fault with the style or just a modification you want?

    Here is the edit. Let me know if this ok now.

    https://gist.githubusercontent.com/POBrien333/87f4d0665d95d48d9ef4a2af5f33e822/raw/2905e7f5eca087e8d4d4b5b0b942343f995a9cb5/universita-di-bologna-lettere-modified.csl
  • andreacengia
    Thank you @damnation

    I think that this version is very good. I have seen only a issue. The translator name appears twice time instead once. Could you remove the last one?

    In the example shown below the second (tradotto da) Giovanni Ferrara degli Uberti. In the example I put it between two *

    Rosenberg, Nathan, Inside the black box, trad. da Giovanni Ferrara degli Uberti, Dentro la scatola nera: tecnologia ed economia, *(tradotto da) Giovanni Ferrara degli Uberti,* Bologna, Il mulino, 1991.

    Thank you
    Andrea
  • damnation
    @andreacengia
    Could you get back at the question I had also asked you, before I further work on this style?
  • andreacengia
    Sorry @damnation,

    My english is not so good. I have misunderstand your question.

    I have not seen any fault in the style. I'd like to reach a version on the style with request.
    So, for me, the last version you have posted is good. There are not faults that I can see.
    But, I have compared the template outline with a journal where I will publish the article. What is also needed are this fields added after original-title
    original-publisher:
    original-publisher-place:
    original-date:

    Thank you
  • damnation
    Let me rephrase:
    The style is for the University of Bologna. We've been making changes to match your needs.
    The question is now if this is a general fault in the style for the "University of Bologna" or if the modified style just something you are using for something private.

    Should we make these changes available for ALL Zotero users via https://www.zotero.org/styles or just for you personally?

    Google translate...
    Lasciami riformulare:
    Lo stile è per l'Università di Bologna. Abbiamo apportato modifiche per soddisfare le tue esigenze.
    La domanda è ora se questo è un difetto generale nello stile per "l'Università di Bologna" o se lo stile modificato è solo qualcosa che stai usando per qualcosa di privato.

    Dovremmo rendere queste modifiche disponibili per TUTTI gli utenti Zotero tramite https://www.zotero.org/styles o solo per te personalmente?
  • andreacengia
    Sorry @damnation for the misunderstanding

    This is not a upgrade of University of Bologna style, but this is a new style based on the Bologna's style in order to have a tipical italian note reference.

    Based on this I'd like to achieve the rules of a little italian philosophical journal named "quaderni materialisti" (here there is the link to the editoral rules, more specific for the translated books, label "Volume in traduzione" http://www.quadernimaterialisti.unimib.it/?p=107 )

    So, I suggest, that the style may be useful for more than one umanistic researchers in Italy when they need a style for express original and translated informations about a book. Therefore I suggest to publish the style without any reference to Università di Bologna or Quaderni materialisti.
  • damnation
    Vale. Now we're on the same page.

    Is there any other differences between the Bologna and the Quaderni Materialisti style that we need to take care off?
  • andreacengia
    Yes!

    Here there are what i note between the Bologna and Quaderni Materialisti.

    (1) For the translated book I have seen only that the information related to the original book are placed after the original title while at the moment they do not appear.
    Now, only these informations don't appear
    original-publisher:
    original-publisher-place:
    original-date:

    Result expected.
    N. Rosenberg, Inside the black box, Cambridge, Cambridge university press, 1982, tr. it. di G. Ferrara degli Uberti, Dentro la scatola nera: tecnologia ed economia, Bologna, Il Mulino, 1991, p. 58.
    -----
    (2) All first name of author and translator are cutted after first letter. Nathan became N.; Giovanni became G.
    -----
    (3)The last one is that both the title (original and translated "Inside the black box" and "Dentro la scatola nera: tecnologia ed economia") must be italic style and not normal
    -----

    That is all (I hope!)
    Thanks
  • damnation
    Can you test this one?
    Generally, I'll need more info when you want changes, especially which field is the data entered and if you're talking about the bibliography or the notes. I am working blind wthout this info.
    https://raw.githubusercontent.com/POBrien333/styles/405834918f46d828b532ef8442e681a95932caeb/quaderni-materialisti.csl
  • andreacengia
    Hi @damnation

    I have taken some time in order to compile the style request in order to avoid you working blind.

    I hope it will be helpful
    In the link you will find three examples: journal, entire book (as you know this is the main issue because here I'd like to use original and translated title togheter), and a book chapter.
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1V3ICnVYFkxohxqFtjxWMbEuXGssyRtStU5Xtc3J4CTQ

    Thanks, kind regards
    Andrea
  • damnation
    @andreacengia
    Have you entered the origianl-x values in the extra field?
    Try this style: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/POBrien333/styles/b492d910a35133b045978aa49527971a1317c9d1/quaderni-materialisti.csl

    Comes out like this for me:
    Nathan Rosenberg, Inside the black box, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 1982, trad. da A. F. Bianchi, P. Leech, P. Pini, Dentro la scatola nera: tecnologia ed economia, Bologna, Il Mulino, 2001
  • andreacengia
    @damnation

    It works! Thank you. This version is a big improvement!

    There is only a little issue: the first name, in my view, is newer reduced to the first letter nor for the author nor for the translator (like in your outcome "A. F. Bianchi"), the problem is also for the author (Nathan should be N.).
    That's all!
  • damnation
    How are they entered in Zotero? Check that first.
  • adamsmith
    I think the request is to have all authors with initials, not with full names, i.e. your above should be N. Rosenberg, Inside the black box, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 1982, trad. da A. F. Bianchi, P. Leech, P. Pini, Dentro la scatola nera: tecnologia ed economia, Bologna, Il Mulino, 2001

    and you'll likely want to set initialize-with=". " on all other name elements, too
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