sharing/collaboration or multiple computers and users

hs · April 4, 2009

Hello,

This is regarding Zetaro and Openoffice.Org and MS Word and LaTeX and how they relate to Zetaro during collaboration or multiple computers.

I wanted some clarifications regarding sharing or collaborating on document or writing a document on multiple computers. The former is obvious, the latter includes situation where a document is being developed on multiple locations (office/univ, laptop, desktop at home, etc.).

1. I understand that it is not currently possible to share a document or collaborate with other authors who may also have Zotero installed. Is that correct? How does it differ in the case of Zotero Sync version?

2. Can the Sync version be somehow used to have this independence? Say if I have Zotero Sync installed on the three computers that I use. Can I develop a document on all the computers?

3. Is there a work around for the above situations? And what are the future plans and ETA?

Other insights in to this scenario are also welcome.

I am in the process of recommending Zotero to my peers at my univ. and the above factors are critical to it. Till this collaboration or sharing thing is resolved satisfactorily, I might not recommend them to ditch EndNote just now --- the surprise disappointment might create a negative impression towards Zetaro, which I want to avoid.

Regards,
Thanks.

bdarcus · April 4, 2009

1. I understand that it is not currently possible to share a document or collaborate with other authors who may also have Zotero installed. Is that correct?

Correct. It's actually even worse: you can't collaborate with yourself on different computers (unless you do something like I did, and synchronize the databases yourself).

How does it differ in the case of Zotero Sync version?

The latter limitation I note above goes away.

2. Can the Sync version be somehow used to have this independence? Say if I have Zotero Sync installed on the three computers that I use. Can I develop a document on all the computers?

Yes, so long as it's the same user account.

3. Is there a work around for the above situations? And what are the future plans and ETA?

Well, if you're only concerned about a single user, there's no problem, so long as you use 1.5. The problem happens when you have multiple authors.

Other insights in to this scenario are also welcome.

Think of four steps of interoperability:

same user, same (bibliographic) application, same local database

same user, same (bibliographic) application, different local databases

different users, same (bibliographic) application

different users, different (bibliographic) application

Applications like Mendeley and Zotero are at best at stage 2. Zotero will soon be getting to stage 3, though I do not know when.

Where we really need to be is stage 4. That will only happen if applications agree to use a common document field encoding and embedded metadata.

hs · April 4, 2009

Hi bdarcus,

Thanks for the info and giving me the current status of this very necessary feature.

One other aspect of this feature is to compare how Zotero performs w.r.t. another biblio. manager (I have Endnote in mind, but there are others of course) in this respect. In that case, I know that as long as both the users have, say Endnote, installed on their machines, we can share the same document. It is not smooth and trivial to do so, sometimes there are some complications, but the document can be jointly developed.

With the Zotero Sync version, I understand that if one were to create an account for a team, say Project1, then all people collaborating on documents using Zotero Sync and Project1 account, can work seamlessly? Can there be problems with simultaneous logins in the Sync account?

Finally, since the problem and requirement are a bit clear now, how can I present this aspect (collaboration; same user different machines) to my peers while promoting Zotero. I must point out that unless some kind of resolution is reached in this regard, none of my peers who use MS Word or OOo, are going to consider Zotero. They would not want to use Zotero for their personal work, only at a single machine, and another biblio. manager (Endnote here) for rest of the docs.

Finally, I must say that personally, if I were not to consider the above limitation, Zotero is the best biblio. manager I have seen! Kudos to the devs.

Thanks.
PS: Any idea whatever happened to that suit that Endnote people filed against Zotero several months ago?

Thomas_ · April 4, 2009

Hi!

Do you have any idea about when the multiple users feature is gonna be implemented?

Thanks.

Thomas.

noksagt · April 4, 2009

With the Zotero Sync version, I understand that if one were to create an account for a team, say Project1, then all people collaborating on documents using Zotero Sync and Project1 account, can work seamlessly?

Mostly yes. Sync isn't completely seamless (it has size limits on fields that aren't imposed in the client, etc.), but it is quite good.

Can there be problems with simultaneous logins in the Sync account?

Syncing is a relatively quick process & it isn't likely that the different machines will sync simultaneously (I often have multiple machines with the sync plugin up). There is a server lock to allow only one client accesses to the sync account at a time. You might sometimes be prompted to manually clear this lock (if, for example, your sync was somehow interrupted before completion and before the lock can be cleared). Manually overriding this lock when another client is, in fact, syncing may lead to weirdness & you are warned as such. It is possible to "shoot yourself in the foot," but there are reasonable protections in place & there are people using the beta in the way you describe.

none of my peers who use MS Word or OOo, are going to consider Zotero.

What other choice do your OO.o using peers have? I'm not aware of any app that has progressed to "stage 3" that works with OO.o & collaboration would have to be a work-around similar to that used in Zotero 1.5.

PS: Any idea whatever happened to that suit that Endnote people filed against Zotero several months ago?

I'm not expecting much word until it is actually resolved. http://www.citmedialaw.org/threats/thomson-reuters-scientific-inc-endnote-v-george-mason-university-zotero

hs · April 4, 2009

What I meant by "I must point out that unless some kind of resolution is reached in this regard, none of my peers who use MS Word or OOo, are going to consider Zotero." was that users are going to rather stay with status quo, using Endnote with MS Word, until the collaboration and multi-machine usage of zotero is resolved in some manner.

In other words, my selling points for shifting to Zotero (I personally use it all the time) usually are:
1. Open source
2. Free
3. Portable
4. Based on open standards
5. Active feedbacks from devs to community's comments
6. Works with MS Word, OOo and LaTeX (able to export to bibtex easily)
7. Transparent to number of users and number of machines being used.
8. GUI and features constantly being improved upon.

Now, I know many people, primarily faculty, do not usually put much stock in the first 5 points.

The sixth point makes sense when people are trying to shift from MS Word to OOo and are in transition where they want their references to work in both word processors. BTW, Zotero is another huge attraction for moving to OOo, since other main biblio. managers do appear to support it (not sure though).

The last point is the one that is critical and carries most weight for these group of people. And this is the point that is that is not yet resolved in Zotero. Unless it is, most of people will not see any huge benefit towards moving to Zotero. These people are also those who usually use Endnote. They are able to make things work in Endnote with a bit of a struggle. So asking them try out Zotero while it cannot be used for collaboration and on multiple machines is not going to be a very attractive proposition. In short, currently Zotero is losing out on this point as compared to at least Endnote (it may sound a bit blunt here, but this is way they see it).

I hope I have clarified the nuances of this situation.

Regards.

bdarcus · April 4, 2009

You have plenty of compelling reasons to switch. So I suggest waiting until 1.5 final and the forthcoming "group" functionality is released, and then making the pitch to the team. By that time, the issues you are concerned about are likely to be resolved.

hs · April 4, 2009

Thanks.

I myself have already switched! I love Zotero! I am using Sync version since several months. In fact, I noticed when I first installed Zotero that the non-sync version was not going to work for me at all. I know Sync is in beta, but the other was not practical for me at all.

And I agree with you. I am holding off trying to *really* convince others to move for now.

Thanks.