[JurisM] bluebook stylesheet incorrect for websites,blogs

elleonleo

Hey,

Realizing that jurism/zotero and i'm assuming the bluebook stylesheet in general is not citing websites and blogposts correctly. The title of the site or post is in small caps when it should be italicized. Anyone else have this problem? Is there an easy way to fix it myself? Thanks!

fbennett

Thanks for flagging this -- I'll take a look at the Indigo styles and report back soon.

fbennett

I've made a change that should remove the small-caps from web-page and blog-post references. If you reinstall your Indigo style from https://juris-m.github.io/downloads, and (if you are in a document) switch to another style, then back again, the change should take effect.

elleonleo

Wow, amazing. Thanks so much for the quick response and fix.

Installing the new style was a breeze (I was worried that it was different for the standalone version that I use).
Two other questions:
1. I vaguely understand that the indigo style is equivalent to the bluebook but I just wanted to confirm with you that that was true?

2. I just realized that I should be using the JM Indigo Law Review Style. Would you be able to update that as well?

Thanks so much again.

elleonleo

Actually, if I'm understanding it correctly (I don't have the bluebook in front of me but am referencing this--http://lawweb.pace.edu/library/differences.pdf), there may be some important differences regarding the use of small caps between law review vs non-law review. I can't quite figure it out but I figured I'd ask you. According to the link provided above, a citation to a newspaper requires small caps for the name of the publication, as if it were a normal journal publication. This is rule 16.6 in bluebook. I can't verify if this is accurate but wanted to flag that.

elleonleo

ack so sorry to bring up more things but, when using the indigo style,

now i'm having some difficulty with the "report" item type when using Word plugin. It is not being cited correctly using the plugin (though it works when using the bluebook style). However, if I directly copy from jurism, the citation works properly. Any thoughts?

elleonleo

Here is a good overview of the bluebook rules for secondary sources: http://lawweb.pace.edu/library/bluebookingsecondarysourcesfootnotes.pdf

fbennett

Feedback is always good. My response times will vary, b/c day job but also due to time differences (I'm 9-12 hours away from US time zones here).

The rules in the Indigo style guide should track the Bluebook rules very closely. There's a dreary back-story to it - I asked for permission to implement against Bluebook Online back in 2009 (under the Terms of Use, not copyright), and the editors pushed back. That set off a chain of events (and a stream of legal correspondence) that ultimately resulted in production of the Indigo Book, spearheaded by Chris Sprigman at NYU and Carl Malamud of Public Resource. IB is a clean-room re-expression of the current Bluebook rules, free of copyright restrictions.

This has been a frustrating experience for all concerned. My own take personally is that the Bluebook editors are not running their project as if it were a public standard, and (to be perfectly blunt) I don't see why anyone else should treat it as one.

If the Juris-M styles do not follow Indigo for any cite form, that's a bug that will need fixing. If there are discrepancies between Indigo and Bluebook on the rules themselves, Juris-M will follow Indigo until it is revised.

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming :)

fbennett

I just realized that I should be using the JM Indigo Law Review Style. Would you be able to update that as well?

I made the same change to both versions of the style, so it should be delivering normal-case for webpage and post-weblog there as well.

fbennett

On the treatment of newspaper names in the law review variant, the style is currently setting the newspaper name in small caps (as you describe), but all examples in Indigo set the newspaper name in normal type. While the Pace University pages above show small caps for that use case, we don't have any way of knowing whether that's an old 19th-edition requirement that wasn't updated in their docs, or the actual requirement of the Bluebook 20th edition.

It is very possible that there was a change at the 19th/20th boundary, since the Bluebook project is notorious for sprinkling little papercuts like this into their 5-yearly revisions to the guide.

You can certainly customize the JM Indigo styles if an editor or instructor demands different behavior; but the distributed style will adhere to Indigo for the present, with normal-case newspaper titles in both variants. So there is a bug to be fixed here.

fbennett

I'm having some difficulty with the "report" item type when using Word plugin. It is not being cited correctly using the plugin (though it works when using the bluebook style). However, if I directly copy from jurism, the citation works properly.

What is the cite form that you expect, and what does the style produce?

elleonleo

Thanks so much again for this thorough feedback.

With regards to the report item, it seems that when I use the word plugin, I get a citation that looks like a website entry (though without the URL). When I copy or drag from JurisM, I get what I am pretty sure is the correct version, which should be the format of a normal "book" item, but with the URL attached. This is what they look like (though the small caps doesn't render here):

Word Plugin:
Amanda Gullings, The Commercial Bail Industry: Profit or Public Safety? (Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice), May 2012.

Copied Version:
AMANDA GULLINGS, THE COMMERCIAL BAIL INDUSTRY: PROFIT OR PUBLIC SAFETY? (2012), http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/Profit_or_Public_Safety.pdf.

From what I understand (after looking at the same citation published in law reviews), reports should be cited as books, and should allow for the url to be placed--just like how it is when i drag/copy it. Maybe a problem with the word plug in then?

elleonleo

Oh no--you are really going to hate this.
Now I'm seeing a related problem:

for a website (which you just fixed), it comes out right WHEN I USE THE WORD PLUGIN, but incorrectly when I copy/drag!

COPY/DRAG:
Birny Birnbaum, CREDIT SCORING IN INSURANCE: AN UNFAIR PRACTICE UNITED POLICYHOLDERS (2011), http://uphelp.org/pubs/credit-scoring-insurance-unfair-practice (last visited Mar 10, 2017).
here the title of the page AND the title of the website itself are all in small caps AND there is no comma between them (see below)

Word Plugin:
Birny Birnbaum, Credit Scoring in Insurance: An Unfair Practice, United Policyholders (May 24–2011), http://uphelp.org/pubs/credit-scoring-insurance-unfair-practice.
here the title of the page is in italics, while the "united policyholders" (the name of the website) is in small caps--this is perfect

fbennett

This sounds like there is some confusion about the styles or cite forms being applied.

• Are you sure you are using the same style in the Word plugin and in the Copy/Drag in these tests? In the Copy/Drag, Juris-M will use the default style set in Juris-M (not the word processor), via Preferences -> Export.
• Also, are you copying citations in the drag (shift-drag) or bibliography entries (drag)?

Apart from context adjustments (id, subsequent-cite forms, pinpoints etc), there really can't be a difference between the citation forms produced by WP-insert and quick-copy (drag-and-drop), with the same data and applying the same cite form and style.

fbennett

Oh - and the Indigo styles are doing reports incorrectly. The URL is not being included. We don't require it in student theses, and I think that I removed it for that reason - but we should be using a customized style for that. I'll put it back in there tomorrow.

elleonleo

Thanks so much again. You were right regarding the way I was exporting (thanks for clarifying Zotero related things). I now understand the differences and settings.

Regarding the "report" item. Sounds good. When you put it back, can you verify that it should be equivalent to the book item, but can include the url. Right now the style produces this: Melissa Neal, Bail Fail: Why the U.S. Should End the Practice of Using Money for Bail (Justice Policy Institute), Sept. 2012.


When it should be:
MELISSA NEAL, BAIL FAIL: WHY THE U.S. SHOULD END THE PRACTICE OF USING MONEY FOR BAIL 3 (2012)

I'm pretty sure. (Though on this point, I will admit that when searching the very same citation in a couple journals, I see it cited both ways). So perhaps there is less clarity on the subject. Either way, getting the URL back in there would be great.

elleonleo

I have two separate questions:
I can't totally figure out how to do two things:

1. Does jurism automatically produce abbreviations according to indigobook? Or am I only seeing abbreviations in cases where the imported metadata has the abbreviations built in? Is there a way to automate the abbreviations? I know zotero offers automatic abbreviations via Medline, however those abbreviations aren't equivalent.
2. Are there instructions for the use of signals (see, also see, see generally, etc.)? I see the functionality there but haven't figured it out.

Thanks so much again!

fbennett

Abbreviations are handled with an Abbreviation Filter (AF) plugin. It's bundled into the Standalone version of the client. With the Firefox plugin version of JM (which will soon be decommissioned), the AF plugin must be installed separately. The plugin currently ships with abbreviations drawn from Bluebook 19th; I haven't yet pulled the abbreviations out of Indigo, but I'll get there eventually. Meanwhile, AF does provide an interface for editing abbreviations, and for controlling the appearance of jurisdiction names in finished citations.

The signals are supported by a Bluebook Signals for Zotero plugin, also bundled with JM Standalone, and a separate install with the Firefox JM plugin. Signal support is invoked by pressing ctrl-s in the Prefix field, when editing an item through the word processor plugin.

fbennett

Also, I should note that a new version of Juris-M, based on the new Zotero 5.0 client, is on its way. Functionality will be pretty much the same (apart from incorporating new features that come in via the underlying Zotero code base), and the new client uses the same styles as the old one. There are a few usability fixes, though, and most of the code for legal and multilingual support has been rewritten.

To receive project news, feel free to sign up for one or more of the project mailing lists (they're all low-traffic, your inbox won't get clobbered).

elleonleo

Thank you again for all your support!!!!!!!!!!!! Got the abbreviations and signals working perfectly.

Looking forward to the new version.

elleonleo

Hi again,

I had another idea. You may have already covered this but would it be possible to add a general citation item for internet sources, akin to bluebook rule 18.2.2 or indigobook rule 33? How can this be achieved with the current items available? I think as it stands that is basically what the website item currently does?

Further, if I would like to cite to a youtube video, bluebook dictates using 18.2.2. However, I'd like to cite to the timestamp so that I can direct the reader to the particular moment in the video. Would there be a way to add that as a field?

Thanks so much again.

elleonleo

Okay last thing.

Can you double check that for the Website item, the website title is back to being in small caps? I could have swore (and according to my prior posts) that it was in small caps but I can't get it to do that now.

elleonleo

Hi Professor,

Another thing (sorry): Do you know why i'm getting vertical lines in my case citations? I'm referencing a SCOTUS opinion.
Thanks again.

elleonleo

Seems to have to do with the abbreviations filter. Originally I was getting "(United States|US Sup. Ct. 2015)."
After typing in United States into the abbreviations filter, I am getting "(Sup. Ct. 2015)"

I'll keep tweaking but if you happen to have the solution, let me know. Thanks so much.

elleonleo

I fixed it by using this advice you posted on another thread:

"To set that up, open the Abbrevs. popup, and select the "Institution Part" list. It should show several entries for "Court of Appeals". In the "us" entry, set this value:!here>>>
This will unconditionally suppress "Court of Appeals" in all cites in the "us" domain."

Except I applied it to the supreme court entry that came up.

I should note that it comes up fine under the bluebook style.

fbennett

Yep, that's the state of play with Juris-M 4.0. Glad to hear you've been able to sort it out. I agree that it's not pretty.

Jurisdiction support and suppression will be better in Juris-M 5.0. I have the client for that working in the lab. It will be ready for release when Zotero 5.0 becomes the official Zotero client.

elleonleo

That sounds really great Professor. Thank you. And thank you for your responses.

Just to flag a question I posed earlier, since I know I've been flooding the thread:
Can you double check that for the Website item, the website title is back to being in small caps? I could have swore (and according to my prior posts) that it was in small caps but I can't get it to do that now.

elleonleo

Finally, I made a little video of something I'm experiencing. Trying to cite to an executive order, everything seems to be set up right (see video) but things aren't getting abbreviated as they should. Let me know what you think when you get the chance!:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6vVYukg9fTjS3hnaEkwd1dncVk/view?usp=sharing

elleonleo

Hey Frank,

Just wanted to follow up with this whenever you get the chance. Thanks so much.