Legal case references not showing page numbers after ibid.

robheimburger

Hello,
I have a problem with legal references not showing page numbers after an ibid. citation.
Two years ago, I worked on a document using the Chicago Manual of Style 16th ed. (full note) that included citations of cases. Now I’m reworking the document, and Zotero citations have improved in one respect: they no longer repeat the Reporter Volume and page number. Thanks for that improvement.
Still, another change causes a real problem: an ibid. citation does not display the page number. So, I have this citation:
130 U.S. 581, 585 (1889).
When in the next footnote I want to cite the same case, p. 589, this now appears
Ibid.
In the earlier version of my document that I have printed out, this appeared:
Ibid., 130:589.
 
I tried one way of fixing the problem. Both citations have the author suppressed. I tried unchecking the suppress author field, but the second citation’s page number didn’t appear.
Another approach would be to use Citation Stylist http://citationstylist.org/, but it doesn't look like it's been updated since 2015. Should I try it?
Can you suggest the best way forward?

adamsmith

The new home of what used to be MLZ and is now juris-m is here: https://juris-m.github.io/ and it's being very actively developed. If you do large amounts of legal citations, I'd very much recommend giving it a try.

That said, we should be able to get basic case citations right in Chicago Manual, and I'll try to take a look, but can't promise how quickly.

robheimburger

I looked at Juris-M, and it looks sophisticated, but perhaps too sophisticated. I had trouble with downloading it, but I'll press on. Please say if you are able to get the case citations right in Chicago. Everything else is working all right for me, and I'm not dealing with a wide variety of legal citations in my work.

adamsmith

I'll do my best. Worst case, you could enter case page numbers as suffixes.
Wouldn't recommend that if you can avoid it, but if you need a quick&viable workaround...

robheimburger

That worked when I tried it, but it would take a decent amount of meddling with references. Thanks for the suggestion.

robheimburger

Hello,
Basic case citations in the Chicago Manual are still not displaying page numbers when subsequent footnotes display different page numbers. Would it be possible to fix this by the time I submit a manuscript in November?

adamsmith

this should be fixed now courtesy of @fbennett . You may have to change to a different style and back for changes to take effect in an existing document.

robheimburger

Once I edited a citation and clicked 'refresh,' everything is working. Thanks, @fbennett!

fbennett

Glad to hear it worked! I noticed that subsequent back-references are providing full information on the cite ("558 U.S. 310, 312") rather than the "Bluebook" details, which would be something like "558 U.S. at 312" (with "at" as connector, and providing only the pinpoint). The extra information does no harm, and there's no particular reason to put citations in a Bluebook straightjacket, but if it's an issue, just let us know.

robheimburger

The current citations work fine for now: I'm including legal citations in a work that's not written for legal scholars, and so long as the references are consistent, lead a reader to the source, and are not far off industry standard, then they work well. I guess a legal scholar could use Juris-M for greater precision.

thomasdaprile

I'm still having this problem! I inputted the page I needed to the shortcut, but the citation still printed out: Bragdon v. Abbott, No. 97–156 (U.S.C. June 25, 1998). The citation should read: Bragdon v. Abbott, No. 97–156 (U.S.C. June 25, 1998), p. 647. I think the page number is saved in the citation metadata because if I leave the style Chicago Manual of Style 17th edition (full note) to Chicago Manual of Style 17th edition (author-date), for example, the page number shows up in an in-text citation. Do I need to edit the style to make case page numbers appear in the footnote? Thanks!!