beck-online translator is not working

dkre

Report-ID: 1344484847

Error: Zotero-icon does not appear (only the option: "save as website...").

steps to reproduce: The error orrurs when using the database "beck-online" (https://beck-online.beck.de/) on any page or article.


additional information: According to https://github.com/zotero/translators/blob/master/beck-online.js there should be a translator available.

thank you very much in advance!!

zuphilip

Yes, there is a translator for beck-online. I will try to look at beck-online the next days, when I have access to the database. Can you provide a specific link for an example which is not working?

dkre

Thanks for your immediate reply.

example link:

https://beck-2online-1beck-1de-1356251691.erf.sbb.spk-berlin.de/default.aspx?words=NVwZ+2015%2C+1&btsearch.x=42&source=default&btsearch.x=0&btsearch.y=0

(the link should lead you to: NVwZ 2015, p. 1) --> my access to beck-online is provided by "Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin", that's why the links contains this part "...erf.sbb.spk-berlin.de". I could imagine that this might be a reason why the translator is not working for me? However, the juris-database-translator is working fine even though access is provided also through Staatsbibliothek...

adamsmith

the problem is almost certainly the weird way this is getting proxified, using hyphens rather than dots (i.e. turning beck.online.beck.de into beck-2online-1beck-1de -- I'm not sure we'll have a solution for that.

zuphilip

I tried this afternoon some beck-online articles and the Zotero translator works for me. However, I would like to investigate your case here further and try to come up with some solution. Especially because the SBB-PK is "the" special library for law in Germany (Sondersammelgebietsbibliothek, FID für Rechtswissenschaften).

The problems seem to the the replacements (- by -2 and . by -1) in the host url. Could the remaining part "-1356251691.erf.sbb.spk-berlin.de" be solved by the normal proxy handling? Could we solve it by replace the regexp in the translator with
^https?://beck-2?online(\.|-1)beck(\.|-1)de/? @adamsmith

aurimas

No, we're not going to replace this in the target regexp. This sort of proxying is going to happen for all sites, so we need a general solution. I've never seen the numbers being added to the host part. Will look into it, but the general issue is https://github.com/zotero/zotero/issues/721

zuphilip

Okay. According to the DBIS entry the entry point for this database for SBB-PK is http://erf.sbb.spk-berlin.de/han/356251691 which will lead me (outside the SBB-PK IP range) to http://staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/Emedien-Meldungen/Login/ . I would speculate that this is based on the HAN server technology maybe in combination with Shiboleth.

More information or anything I can help here?

schmid_al

Well, the beck-online isn't working as it should. I have no problems using, for example, articles from "MMR" (MultiMedia und Recht) like this one: https://beck-online.beck.de/?vpath=bibdata%2fzeits%2fmmr%2f2014%2fcont%2fmmr.2014.14.1.htm&pos=13&hlwords=on

But I have no chance to use the translator for legal commentaries like the big "Beck'scher Online Kommentar BGB" (https://beck-online.beck.de/?vpath=bibdata%2fkomm%2fbeckok_38_bandbgb%2fbgb%2fcont%2fbeckok.bgb.p12.glb.glii.gl3.gla.htm&pos=128&hlwords=on=) for example. I just can download the website as a website what is not what I want. This also occurs with many many other legal commentaries. So at this moment, the zotero translator is not usable for me for beck-online.

Alex

zuphilip

Currently the beck-online translator is focusing on journal article and might have problems to work e.g. in commentaries. I can try to look if we can extend that, but normally citation work in law sciences is complicated.

The example you posted is part of a commentary (i.e. book) and therefore should result in a book chapter. Do you agree?

schmid_al

I tried some more commentaries and it seems that -no- legal commentary is recognized by the translator (I tried Jauernig, Münchener Kommentar, Beck'scher Online Kommentar and many more). "Juristische Aufsätze" - shorter publications - are working.

zuphilip

Which information would you save in which field in Zotero in your example? (Feel free to write in German)

schmid_al

Ah you were faster than my last comment :)

I think it should result in a book chapter or a encyclopedia as described here: http://www.offenenetze.de/2015/01/13/juristische-beitraege-mit-der-literaturverwaltung-zotero-einfuehrung-und-erfahrungsbericht/ (Nr. 4 b). I don't know whats the better solution.

schmid_al

I see that it is complicated to take the information from beck-online and put it in zotero. There might then be probably some need to chance the citation within zotero or to create a new one.

My suggestion is, to look in some existing legal citations like the one for "K&R" (Kommunikation und Recht) or for CR (Computer & Recht) or for NJW. Perhaps there already is a way how commentaries are cited. And then those zotero-fields should be taken.

schmid_al

The citation-style from K&R uses encyclopedia for commentaries:

" <!-- Legal commentary or handbook should be of publication type "entry-encyclopedia"
- The term "Bearbeiter" (author of a certain chapter) in the following examples should be added by you and is not governed by this stylesheet
- examples:
-
- Heinrichs, in: Palandt (Fn. 11), § 164 Rn. 9

Style:
- if container-title (=Zotero.encyclopediaTitle) is NOT set: <editor non-italic>, <title short>, [<edition>. Aufl. ]<year>, <locator/cited page(s)>
-.- i.e. Bearbeiter, in: Palandt, BGB, 73. Aufl. 2014, § 164 Rn. 8 (where you should add "Bearbeiter, in: " yourself)
- else <container-title>, [<edition>. Aufl. ]<year>, <locator/cited page(s)>
-.- i.e. Bearbeiter, in: BeckTKG, 4. Auflage 2013, ... (where you should add "Bearbeiter, in: " yourself)

if there is at least one series-editor (CSL.collection-editor) set: <collection-editor>, [<edition>. Aufl. ]<year>, <locator/cited page(s)>
-.- i.e. Bearbeiter, in: Palandt, BGB, 73. Aufl. 2014, ... (where you should add "Bearbeiter, in: " yourself)

"

zuphilip

I will not have time to do anything super soon, but I try to look closer here within the next week(s).

schmid_al

Ok, thank you very very much for your fast responses and your work!

schmid_al

Hallo nochmals. Habe meinen vorherigen Beitrag nochmals überdacht und möchte hier gerne einen neuen Vorschlag bringen:

In den Fußnoten würde ich einen Kommentar so formatieren:

<Nachname des Bearbeiter>, in: <Alle Nachnamen der Herausgeber mit "/" separiert>, <Kurztitel des ganzen Kommentars>, <Aktuell kommentierter Paragraph>
(danach käme noch eine Randnummer, die man aber auf jeden Fall selbst eintragen muss)

Also bspw.: Bauer, in: Wagner/Hofmann, BGB, § 12 Rn. 8 ("Rn. 8" manuell eingegeben).

Im Literaturverzeichnis würde ich das so darstellen:

<Alle Herausgeber mit Nachnamen, Vornamen (mit "/" separiert)>, <Voller Name des Kommentars>, (<Auflage>), <Ort> <Jahr>

Beste Grüße
Alex

schmid_al

Das trifft zwar nicht den oben genannten K&R Stil, aber vielleicht wäre folgende Zuordnung sinnvoll (v.a. widerspricht sich diese nicht mit dem, was der juris-Translator bei Kommentaren so interpretiert; es soll ja bestenfalls für jede Seite alles einheitlich sein).:

<author>: Bearbeiter des aktuellen Ausschnittes
<editor> Herausgeber des ganzen Kommentars
<title>: Kompletter Titel des ganzen Kommentars
<title-short>: (Manuell einzugebender) Kurztitel des Kommentars
<container-title>: Aktuell kommentierter Paragraph ("§ 12 BGB" bspw.)
<edition>: Auflage
<date>: Datum der Auflage (nur das Jahr)
<URL>: Die URL
Dann noch den Ort der Auflage in die <ort>-Variable, da weiß ich aber nicht, wie diese auf englisch heißt (<event-places>?)

Beste Grüße!

thebackbencher

Hi zuphilip, I am experiencing the same problems as schmid_al and would really appreciate anything that could make working especially with the commentaries in beck-online easier. You can see, there is actually a demand for your work ;)

thebackbencher

Thanks a million and happy holidays!

anna_maria001

Hi everyone,

since a few days a have issues with the beck online translator as well. Usually I was able to save almost anything from beck online, especially verdicts. But since two days it always tells me this: An error occurred while saving this item. Check Known Translator Issues for more information.
Can you help me with that?
Thanks a lot!

zuphilip

I have proposed a fix for that as well and also to include "Kommentare", but this need some review. CC adamsmith

zuphilip

A translator fix is now up, which also handles "Kommentare". Your version of Zotero will automatically update within 24hs, or you can update manually using the "Update Now" button in the "General" tab of the Zotero preferences. If you're using Standalone, restart Zotero and your browser after updating. Any further problems let us know & thanks for reporting.