Upgrade StorageAPA Style trouble with Youtube videos bibliography format
Hi Folks,
The APA bibliography format for a Youtube video in Zotero is giving me:
Stories from the Front lines, Part 1. (2008). Retrieved June 3, 2008, from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLCl0xIg5-0.
when the correct format, from the APA Style Guide to Electronic References (2007) should be:
For comparison, the Guide gives this example:
The APA bibliography format for a Youtube video in Zotero is giving me:
Stories from the Front lines, Part 1. (2008). Retrieved June 3, 2008, from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLCl0xIg5-0.
when the correct format, from the APA Style Guide to Electronic References (2007) should be:
3rdID8487 (2008, May 11). Stories from the Front lines, Part 1[Video file]. Video posted to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLCl0xIg5-0
For comparison, the Guide gives this example:
Norton, R. (2006, November 4). How to train a cat to operate a
light switch [Video file]. Video posted to http://www.you
tube.com/watch?v=Vja83KLQXZs
Second, I have a hard time believing the "video posted to" is any more correct than the "retrieved from".
First point next. APA treats youtube as a "Video Weblog post" using the posted-by username as the author, same as it does for the format for "Weblog post". Most of the time, youtube posters don't give their real full names, if they do, cool, you can use that. If they don't, you can at least use the username to learn something about the poster. In fact, the Style Guide explicitly states, "If the author’s full name is available, list the last name first followed by initials. If only a screen name is available, use the screenname." Zotero correctly scrapes that username, the APA format just isn't using it.
New point. Whoever manages the APA Style CSL may want to take a look at the Style Guide itself. It's only a 24 page pdf. It's been out since July of last summer and its an official style document for an extremely widely used style. Then they can save time and effort by fixing the problems all at one time rather than wait for someone to find each individual problem and report it one at a time. Update it once and move on. I bet the library at their institution even has a copy of it.
I'm just trying to report errors so Zotero can produce accurate APA citations and bibliographies. I know that you are working on making it easier to customize CSL's and when that is done I'll be glad to work directly on the CSL.
Here are the APA Style Guide's examples for online communities, including blogs, etc. I'd post the whole thing but really your home institution should have it in the library already and if they don't then you should ask them to buy it.
quote (it's too much of a pain to do the .5in hanging indent in html so let's pretend it's there)
Online Communities
The Internet offers several options for people around the world to sponsor
and join discussions devoted to particular subjects. These options
include Weblogs (“blogs”), newsgroups, online forums and discussion
groups, and electronic mailing lists. (The last are often referred to as “listservs.”
However, LISTSERV is a trademarked name for a particular software
program; “electronic mailing list” is the appropriate generic term.)
Care should be taken when citing electronic discussion sources.
47. Message posted to a newsgroup, online forum, or discussion
group
Chalmers, D. (2000, November 17). Seeing with sound [Msg 1].
Message posted to news://sci.psychology.consiousness,
archived at http://groups.google.com/group/sci.psychology
.consciousness/
If the author’s full name is available, list the last name first followed
by initials. If only a screen name is available, use the screen
name.
Provide the exact date of the posting.
Follow the date with the subject line of the message (also referred
to as the “thread”); do not italicize it. Provide any identifier for
the message in brackets after the title.
Provide the address for the archived version of the message.
48. Message posted to an electronic mailing list
Smith, S. (2006, January 5). Re: Disputed estimates of IQ [Msg
670]. Message posted to ForensicNetwork electronic mailing
list, archived at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group
/ForensicNetwork/message/670
Include the information “Message posted to” followed by the
name of the list to which the message was posted.
Provide the address for the archived version of the message.
49. Weblog post
bfy. (2007, January 22). Re: The unfortunate prerequisites and
consequences of partitioning your mind. Message posted to
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/
50. Video Weblog post
Norton, R. (2006, November 4). How to train a cat to operate a
light switch [Video file]. Video posted to http://www.you
tube.com/watch?v=Vja83KLQXZs
/quote
Is the snide tone at the top really necessary?
Just to contextual my earlier questions/comments, it's a big, big big PITA to deal with all of these trivial variations in styles. I'm not complaining about your message; am complaining about the styles and anyone (editors, professors, etc.) who insists they be followed religiously.
As a simple example, what difference is there really between "posted to" and "retrieved from"? It's a completely arbitrary distinction where both are simply saying "here's where you can find the file." And why do they say that one must duplicate the type of resource ([video file] AND "video posted ...")?
Sorry, I've just been fighting against for the past few years, and its frustrating. It by definition means more work for all of us (users, style developers, programmers) to get it "right".
If I find some time I'll see if I can figure out a way to get some of this working more correctly. But don't expect it to match 100%.
I agree wholeheartedly that, well, anything related to citations is a PITA. APA is one of the worst but at least they update more frequently than MLA. And it is all so unnecessary. Why not have one documentation style that adds types as needed? But then who would buy each new publication manual?
I love your idea, expressed elsewhere, that the style authors (like APA, MLA, etc) also create and manage their own CSLs. I don't have the clout to get them to do that. Maybe someone in Zotero or CHNM would.
In the meantime, I am concerned with students who use Zotero (or EndNote or RefWorks or Noodlebib even) and then get dinged by their professors for incorrect format. It's needless but happens every day. I'd hate to steer them away but it is difficult to explain that they should use Zotero for the collection help it provides but will need to rewrite the output if they don't want to be marked-down.
Thank you very much for the hard work you put into this.
OTOH, professors that give their students a hard time on these kinds of details really need to get a life. When my students ask me about citations, I tell them to use APA, and that for the "weird" stuff, just to make sure the information I'd need to find it is there. I never, ever, complain about minor issues like whether someone does "retrieved from" or "posted to." In my view, it's ridiculous and unfair to do that.
Elena suggested I write a letter to the editor at the Chronicle about this; still on my long todo list.
is this issue with yutube citation resolved?
i still get the wrong format mentioned in the first post of milliken!
We can probably fix some of it, but APA's (and let's face it: incorrect) classification of YouTube videos as Vlogs (rather than just a movie posted online) makes this a bit of a mess.