MLZ American Law

roypeled

First, I have to say again how wonderful and helpful Zotero is.

Then two questions -

1. I am using "MLZ American Law style". To the best of my limited understanding it is supposed to follow the style in some certain book with a blue cover. Who should I address if I find some inconsistencies between the two?

2. When writing in Hebrew and referring to hebrew sources in legal writing, there is a different citation style dictated by leading Israeli law reviews. What would it take to create a new style for that? I'm afraid I probably lack the know-how to do this, but if you have someone working on the Hebrew version of Zotero that you have, perhaps I can work with him on it? I would go as far as to consider paying for a few hours of work if this doesn't take too many hours to do (I hope that's not an insult in any way, it's just that this would really be helpful and i can't do it on my own).

Thanks,

Roy

adamsmith

are you using this in the MLZ version of Zotero or the regular version?

roypeled

regular version

adamsmith

the MLZ styles are designed to work with MLZ Zotero. They are not expected to work correctly with regular Zotero.

adamsmith

As for a style - you can look at the instructions here, including the link to a visual editor:
http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/citation_styles/style_editing_step-by-step
we're happy to help with specific questions.

Depending on the complexity of the style, I charge around $300 for a style, we'd have to see if this is feasible for a style in Hebrew - depends on the documentation.

roypeled

ok, as to my second question?

roypeled

sorry, I wrote my last message before I saw your reply. I can't imagine that someone without knowledge in Hebrew can do this on his own, though if you think s/he can, I am willing to help map the fields. The documentation I believe is only available in Hebrew. I might be able to raise that sum for a proper hebrew legal style.

fbennett

@roypeled: The MLZ American Law style requires a "jurisdiction" value that is not yet available in official Zotero. If there are discrepancies with legacy Bluebook I'll be happy to address them, but only if the fault can be reproduced in MLZ.

For RTL support, a user reported last year that mixed-text entries behaved badly in the item panel. I introduced some code into MLZ to cope with that:

http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/24491/multilingual-zotero-mixed-rtlltr-language-input-problem/

I'm not sure how official Zotero behaves with mixed-direction field content, but it might be something to check.

roypeled

@fbennett: I will try to reproduce the faulty citations in MLZ and let you know.

fbennett

Regarding the second question, if the style contemplates both RTL and LTR content, it would need to be coded with multiple locales. That is possible using the extended schema of the MLZ styles.

http://gsl-nagoya-u.net/http/pub/citeproc-js-csl.html#multilingual-layouts

As far as I know styles coded in that way will run in official Zotero, but they cannot be distributed through the official CSL repository because they will not validate under the official CSL language schema.

roypeled

@adamsmith

you mentioned the possibility of you creating a new style for a fee. Can we discuss this offline? Can you give an email address of IM username? If you prefer you can send to me at roypeled@gmail.com.

Thanks,

Roy

roypeled

@fbennett

One of the (few) mistakes I find in the MLZ American Law Style, is that foor book entries, it gives the publisher name in brackets [It goes - Author, Title (publisher, date)]. But publisher is not required, unless the book has been published before 1900 (in which case the place is also required).

adamsmith

(email sent)

roypeled

@fbennett

Another mistake I find is that words in a book's title (in this case in a note for a book section) should not be abbreviated. I have -
" DAVID MILLER, Justice, Democracy and Public Goods, in JUSTICE DEMOCR. ESSAYS BRIAN BARRY 127, 7 (2004)."
Democracy here should not have been abbreviated. that only needs to be done in journal titles.

fbennett

@roypeled: Thanks for reporting. I'll fix this.

fbennett

The book title on Book Section items should not suggest abbreviations now. Existing abbrev suggestions that have made it into the plugin database may need attention though.

roypeled

Thanks,
here's another one. When I pinpoint to a section in a statute, I get "sec. x(y)" or "secs. x(y), x(z)". but instead of Sec and secs should come § and §§.

Roy

fbennett

It should be rendering U.S. statutes with § and §§. If you can export an item, I can check the data, to be sure we're talking about the same thing. In the center panel, select the item to export and right-click. Select "Export ..." from the menu, and choose "Bibliontology RDF" as the export format. Save to a file, then open the file with a text editor, and copy-paste the content to http://gist.github.com, saving it there as a "Public gist". Post the URL back here, and I'll see what the item does here.

roypeled

Another issue - abbreviations. Right now University is abbreviated "Univ." while it should just be "U." and "Law" appears as "Law" and "Chicago" is "Chic". Thus University of Chicago Law Review is -
UNIV. CHIC. LAW REV.
While according to the relevant Source at p.465 it should be
U. Chi. L. Rev (small caps)

fbennett

Thanks for these reports. It may be applying the wrong phrase set to journals. The abbreviations specified at 430-431 are for use with case names or titles, but not with journal names. Univ. is correct in the former context, wrong in the latter. The same goes for Law as a full word.

The lists do not have an entry that resolves to "Chic." If that is entered in the field, it will not be touched by the abbreviations engine.

The plugin first looks for a perfect match of the full title. If none is found, it will fall back to the phrases list (the wrong phrases list it seems, at the moment). If matching words or phrases are found, the plugin will generate a suggested abbreviation based on them, and register it. It's not guaranteed to be perfect (although it should be doing a little better), but the suggestion can be overridden (permanently) through the abbreviations plugin dialog in the word processor.

I'm working on an update to MLZ at the moment, but when I get a chance I'll take another look at the logic for applying word and phrase hints.

fbennett

When I pinpoint to a section in a statute, I get "sec. x(y)" or "secs. x(y), x(z)". but instead of Sec and secs should come § and §§.

I'm unable to reproduce this with MLZ and the MLZ American Law style. Whether entered in the Section field of the item, the word processor locator label dropdown list, or as "sec." in the locator field, I get § or §§.

If you're still getting sec./secs., the first step will be to confirm your MLZ version and to reinstall the style from http://citationstylist.org. If that doesn't fix it, we'll dig further.

fbennett

But publisher is not required, unless the book has been published before 1900 (in which case the place is also required).

Rule 15.4 lists several situations in which the publisher would be printed. In most cases it would be left out, but given that removing the publisher details can be done quickly at the final stage of manuscript preparation, while adding it when it's missing might require repeated correspondence between editor and author, it's probably better to leave it in.

roypeled

Thanks for looking into these, will let you know if I find anything else.

Roy