Upgrade StorageComments on 2 PCs + Android Tablet Zotero workflow?
Zotero-ites:
I've been using Zotero and ZotFile for over a year now in my PhD program, and this is some truly amazing software. I'm adding an Android tablet to my workflow for reading and annotating PDFs, and I'd like to get some input on my proposed workflow.
How I currently work (across a desktop PC and a laptop PC):
* Use Zotero storage to syncronize database and attachments (<2GB)
* ZotFile to rename files within the Zotero database and to extract annotations (just discovered this feature--very cool)
* At other times, I've also used Box.net/WebDAV or DropBox (on just the attachments, not the database), but Zotero Storage works pretty well for the two PC sync (and it's good to support the devs!)
However, the addition of the Android tablet gets into the Wild West of Zotero. It seems that the Zandy app *almost* does everything I need it to, but the editing of attachments (annotating) is something it doesn't currently support. Therefore, it seems I need to get creative.
Here's my proposed workflow--please comment!
1) Because Zotero storage does not allow easy access and re-uploading of attachments from Android, I'll need to use something like DropBox for attachment syncing. (Database sync will be left to Zotero.)
2) The DropBox folder will need to be in the same place in the file structure of both PCs (Windows 7). Does anyone know if the DropBox folder can be placed in the root directory (C:/)?
3) ZotFile will be used to rename and relocate attachments to the DropBox folder. (Using a journal/year format to aid in retrieval)
I think that's it--any thoughts on whether or not this will be effective?
Thanks...
I've been using Zotero and ZotFile for over a year now in my PhD program, and this is some truly amazing software. I'm adding an Android tablet to my workflow for reading and annotating PDFs, and I'd like to get some input on my proposed workflow.
How I currently work (across a desktop PC and a laptop PC):
* Use Zotero storage to syncronize database and attachments (<2GB)
* ZotFile to rename files within the Zotero database and to extract annotations (just discovered this feature--very cool)
* At other times, I've also used Box.net/WebDAV or DropBox (on just the attachments, not the database), but Zotero Storage works pretty well for the two PC sync (and it's good to support the devs!)
However, the addition of the Android tablet gets into the Wild West of Zotero. It seems that the Zandy app *almost* does everything I need it to, but the editing of attachments (annotating) is something it doesn't currently support. Therefore, it seems I need to get creative.
Here's my proposed workflow--please comment!
1) Because Zotero storage does not allow easy access and re-uploading of attachments from Android, I'll need to use something like DropBox for attachment syncing. (Database sync will be left to Zotero.)
2) The DropBox folder will need to be in the same place in the file structure of both PCs (Windows 7). Does anyone know if the DropBox folder can be placed in the root directory (C:/)?
3) ZotFile will be used to rename and relocate attachments to the DropBox folder. (Using a journal/year format to aid in retrieval)
I think that's it--any thoughts on whether or not this will be effective?
Thanks...
But make sure you don't set your dropbox folder to root (instead of C:\dropbox) I'm not sure why that's the case. ZotFile settings can be different on each computer.
Additionally, you can now create directory junctions in Windows (sort of like symlinks in Unix). http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365006(v=vs.85).aspx http://support.microsoft.com/kb/205524 This allows you to link to an arbitrary directory from within the dropbox folder, so you can maintain your folder layout and don't have to move the dropbox folder around.
My setup is sort of similar. I use box.net to sync file attachments between computers. To sync between computers and Android tablet, I
http://zotpad.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/103395-what-is-a-symbolic-link-and-why-should-i-use-one-w
What Aurimas describes is the "Send to Tablet" function - no need to worry about the location of the dropbox folder at all.
What eawtrey wants to do is to save _all_ attachments as links using Zotfile. That does indeed require dropbox to be in the exact same location on all computers (and I wouldn't recommend it for that reason).
I thought attachment upload/download works pretty nicely with the new mobile interface of Zotero, no?
@mronkko2: I've had problems with symlinks and dropbox before. The directories that are linked seem to escape the scanning that triggers an automatic sync with the cloud service. If I manually initiate a sync (e.g. stopping and restarting the service), it seems to find the changed files, but it doesn't so so without prompting. if you've had better luck with this, maybe my automation issues are related to something else.
Thanks for the input!
Using Zotfile for all files should work well enough if you're using Windows only - as soon as you have one *nix computer in your workflow it won't work at all anymore, though.
Check out the "send to tablet" functionality of Zotfile - that works great if you have a rough idea which file you'll read on the tablet, though doesn't apply to all files.
I would say that if you do not need to carry your library on the Android table at all times, using ZotFile and the "send to tablet" feature might be the best solution. If you were to use iPad, I would recommend ZotPad and Zotero file storage ;)
(Disclaimer: I am the developer for ZotPad)
The downside of moving Zotero storage dir to Dropbox is that it might be difficult to find the right files using the tablet.
adamsmith elaborated: What I'm suggesting is the following:
1) Create a folder on DropBox, let's say "Attachments".
2) Create a junction that points to [DropBox]/Attachments say in C:\Zotero_Attachments
3) Tell ZotFile to auto rename attachments and place them in C:\Zotero_Attachments
4) Create C:\Zotero_Attachment junctions pointing to the [DropBox]/Attachments directory on other Windows computers. (this would not work between Windows and Unix based systems)
Altogether, this will probably not be necessary soon if this pull request goes through.
Initially, I will probably just use the Nexus 7 for really long documents since it seems like way too much work for managing 5 page documents. I don't want to forget which versions are the most recent.
Zotero made it very difficult for me to commit to an Android tablet. Mikko is greatly to blame for that. Even EndNote has an iPad app coming out this January but no Android app. Weak.
https://github.com/ajlyon/zandy
But in general, developing an app that syncs things in the background and allows offline use of Zotero can be a lot of work. (If you just pull data as you need it and do this in the main thread, things are easy. But the result will not be good that way.)
Zandy might be useful after that for personal reading that won't involve annotating.
The zipped files on WebDav with funky naming removes a lot of options. I suppose I could move my local zotero database to my NAS if the performance is acceptable and make that accessible remotely.
I see the problem with the OP was his multiple PCs. Since I don't have that problem, ZotFile should be sufficient.
I have Zandy running on Android 2.1, and I believe Avram originally developed on something in that ballpark, so in general it's compatible.
I agree it's unfortunate that he doesn't really support or develop it any more, but also note that it's open source - https://github.com/ajlyon/zandy - so anyone interested in taking this further on Android has a very solid amount of work already done (see e.g. https://twitter.com/IAmAboutUs/status/291931361600733184 ). I'd hardly call that crippling. Problem of course is that especially on Android that type of app development is mainly idealism - the money that's to be made in relationship to the work-hours required almost certainly guarantees far below minimum wages, especially if you provide support, too.
I wish people weren't so ignorant about the economies of mobile apps. An app like Zandy will be used by so few people that the developer is basically working for free. It may not meet my needs, but I don't get how anyone is going to be upset with the developer. At least they tried. It adds some value at least to people who already have used Zotero extensively and would like something on their Android device.
If Zotero isn't for you, that is fine. I prefer it over other software I have used due to how well it integrates when browsing in firefox. It does a great job of storing snapshots of web pages and grabbing PDFs from journal sites. Zotpad also helps a lot on the iPad. I don't have a great solution right now for the Nexus 7 and am forced to use a really sloppy hack using Zotfile and Dropbox, so I end up still carrying around the overweight iPad.
and for many PHONES on the market the LATEST version of Android IS 2.3 -- it's not that some are "behind the times" it's what is called "market segmentation" where different devices run different OSes (pardon YOUR ignorance). The app is MARKETED thru the Market BY the developer as being able to run on ALL (current -- v1.5+) Android devices, certainly 2.3 -- the app adds NO value if it doesn't work DUH!!!
"they" did NOT try if they don't respond to AFTERSALES emails seeking support.
YOUR email confuses support for ?your friends? with support for Zotero itself, and confuses so many issues in your final paragraph it becomes worthless -- perhaps the answer, if one MUST use Zotero, is to use Zotpad on the IPAD, but that bears no relationship to the Android issue. I wish dmjo00 wouldn't flaunt his own ignorance on this list where people are seeking reliable support and guidance.
Perhaps the best "solution" to supporting your friend is to recommend he take his app off the market, re-package it for tablets with 4.1 Android, and refund the money of all else who have paid?
People have a right to complain if they buy a product and it isn't "fit for purpose" -- in any local jurisdiction that would suit the requirements of any Trade Practices Act or similar. But so many people flout the weaknesses in the system.
I'm curious, how many Android 2.3 devices have you tried Zandy on before claiming it works on no 2.3 devices?
No one is saying Zandy is a free app. The point you missed is that development time is typically not even close to compensated on projects like this that are for niche markets. That is why such projects get abandoned. Someone developed it and that is a service to the community of Zotero users. If you decided to use Zotero because of Zandy, you made a mistake. If you already were invested in Zotero and felt you would like to be able to see you library on an Android device, then the Zandy purchase can make sense.
This guy is not my "friend". Is that the way your mind works in discussions like this? If someone disagrees with you, they must have a vested interest?
As you can see from reviews, the app is half-baked. Why did you buy an app with such a low rating in the first place? In my view, this app is suitable for people who really want to have some sort of access to their Zotero system on their Android device and who prefer limited functionality over no functionality. If naive users buy it expecting more, it is an unfortunate situation that we see all the time with mobile app purchases. They will be disappointed. But if people research their purchases ahead of time, they know the state of the app before purchasing. The app still adds value to some users who aren't concerned with syncing, so I don't see why it should be taken off the market. As for compatibility with your particular device, that is the risk of buying into such a heterogeneous ecosystem like Android.
"If you find that Zandy doesn't fit your needs, satisfaction is guaranteed: just send me an email at zandy@gimranov.com, and I'll refund the purchase price."
So if he is ignoring your emails, you definitely have a legitimate gripe. He should not have made that statement unless he was going to answer email.
"I don't get people who get all bent out of shape because they are running a device with an old OS."
I'm not using an old OS, but one that the developer allows to be sold thru the market as running on Android 1.5 and above -- it does NOT do that, and so is not "fit for purpose" -- he says nothing about limited capabilities for devices below v4 -- how many phones I run it on is irrelevant for this very reason.
You also stated: "I wish people weren't so ignorant about the economies of mobile apps." But it is YOU, not I, who is flaunting their ignorance, in the guise of greater "expertise"
The device I used was bought, after extensive market research, before Christmas and is thus not "older and cheaper"
You stated" " the developer is basically working for free" and that is why there're, and should be, so many free apps on the Market -- Zandy is not one of them, and certain things a buyer is entitled to expect of a paid app --- little things like it'll work unless previously advised it won't -- many responsible developers release "trial" / ad supported versions of their apps for this reason -- purchasers of Zandy have never had that option, unfortunately, or else I wouldn't be in this position.
So much for my explanation of your points: my points are valid, and the app should be withdrawn from the market, past purchasers should be refunded for buying a product "not fit for purpose"
the app was not so poorly rated when I first purchased it, but, it's not just me, MANY other people have had problems with it, that the developer has failed to respond to by releasing an update.
Since you and I don't know each other, I try to find some reason you would vouch for a product, such as: ""If someone disagrees with you, they must have a vested interest?" I presume you don't have any particular mal-intent towards me, so I can only presume it's ignorance, but it's good that you can acknowledge:
"If you find that Zandy doesn't fit your needs, satisfaction is guaranteed: just send me an email at zandy@gimranov.com, and I'll refund the purchase price."
but this was not his only misleading statement, but we finally agree:
"So if he is ignoring your emails (which he is), you definitely have a legitimate gripe. He should not have made that statement unless he was going to answer email."
As suggested in my earlier email: the app should not imo be discussed on this list unless one provides the recommendation that one first has something like a v4.1 tablet, and the app should be withdrawn from the Market and sold (as many are) on that basis.
I also do not see why it should be removed from the market. There are still people who get value from the app. It should be removed if the claims are false. So if he is no longer refunding or developing the app, it should be removed until he updates his comments. If he removes all claims of continuing development and refunds, the app is still functional. There are still people who would rather it be available as-is than not at all.
AND there are some app developers who expend "great sums" in trialling their devices on multiple devices, after seeking donated devices, or after expending considerable financial resources on it (thinking of apps like CMarks, and Kingsoft Office, respectively). Both of which have excellent ratings, great pre-purchase arrangements permitting trial use before "purchase" (tho the latter is surprisingly entirely free) etc etc
Simple, ethical, solution -- withdraw it from market, re- release it AFTER reframing its requirements. Simple, ethical common sense, solution -- don't recommend it as it is unless providing a caution beforehand that one should have "something like v4.1" before using it -- either that or "use an iPAD with ZotPad instead." Mind you, that is based on my hopes, and ZERO experience with Zotpad. Tho, I've just checked the iTunes store and lots of people seem to have big probs with it too -- so the best bet, after all, might be to wait for a version of RefMaster that supports linked files :-(
and then use something to replace Zotero -- the world seems to be moving towards the replacement of desktops anyway.
Mine are not isolated complaints, as reflected in the apps current very low rating.
Trying again -- this could be a problem with the app OR it could be a problem with Zotero not accepting setup of a new private key since it stalls at this step. "An application would like to connect to your account" and it just returns, after pressing "Accept Defaults", to the Zandy opening screen: View Collections / View Items / Log In
sometimes selecting the sync option will lead to the sign in screen, again -- not signed in -- returning the above message -- all very frustrating -- no "reduced usability" just NO usability
Pressing eiher View Collections or View Items leads to a "(app) has stopped unexpectedly. Please try again."
but sending emails to the developer have never gotten a response, or a refund.