Upgrade StorageNotes as attachements versus as annotations
Zotero has two ways of taking notes. One can create notes in the database attachments (or standalone) notes, available through the Attachments tab (or New Standalone Note button). One can also create notes as "annotations" on snapshots of pages.
The attachment notes have the benefit of being full-fledged database objects, capable of their own properties such as related items and tags. The annotation notes do not seem to have this capability, as they are not represented as full objects in the database. On the other hand, annotations have the benefit of being placed adjacent to relevant text, just as if one were to jot down ideas next to a paragraph relevant to one's research. The attachment notes lack any sense of position with regards to the document they are attached to.
Given these differences, how are you making use of Zotero's two methods for note-taking? Do you prefer one over the other? Do you use one exclusively? Do you make use of both, and if so, do you use each for different tasks?
I'm also interested in hearing the developers thoughts on these two options for taking notes. Will annotations become full-fledged database objects in a future release of Zotero? How did you intend for people to use each method?
I appreciate any thoughts, comments, and opinions.
The attachment notes have the benefit of being full-fledged database objects, capable of their own properties such as related items and tags. The annotation notes do not seem to have this capability, as they are not represented as full objects in the database. On the other hand, annotations have the benefit of being placed adjacent to relevant text, just as if one were to jot down ideas next to a paragraph relevant to one's research. The attachment notes lack any sense of position with regards to the document they are attached to.
Given these differences, how are you making use of Zotero's two methods for note-taking? Do you prefer one over the other? Do you use one exclusively? Do you make use of both, and if so, do you use each for different tasks?
I'm also interested in hearing the developers thoughts on these two options for taking notes. Will annotations become full-fledged database objects in a future release of Zotero? How did you intend for people to use each method?
I appreciate any thoughts, comments, and opinions.
This discussion has been closed.
To clarify, the annotations we are talking about are not synonymous with annotations in a annotated bibliography. In zotero annotations are the sticky notes you stick on HTML documents. (See http://www.zotero.org/documentation/annotation_screencast )
We do not have a direct way to send flag notes as annotations in the annotated bibliography sense of the term. In this case your best bet is to use the generate report function to see all the notes you have attached to a set of items and paste them over to Word.
I've posted (http://www.kinasevych.ca/archives/217) a short discussion and example of how annotations, highlighted text and sticky notes are managed in Skim, a PDF reader for Mac OS. Skim clearly differentiates text that's been taken from an existing manuscript (highlighted annotations) and text that's been generated by the end user (sticky notes). All the while these remain searchable, indexed, and cross-referenced back to their locations in the original manuscript.
Zotero's suggestion to select text from an online source to create a Note (http://www.zotero.org/documentation/note_taking) effectively puts the researcher at risk of confusing another's words as their own. It doesn't help that Zotero's sticky note annotations aren't indexed, searchable or otherwise available in the Zotero collections.
All the plans for Zotero collaboration/server and so on are nice, but for many of us the research and authorship process is a solitary one. Until the limitations of Zotero's annotations/highlights features are addressed, we'll find it hard to be the Zotero cheerleaders that we really, really wish we could be.
Adding interface for page numbers doesn't seem any different than adding x & y coordinates for annotations in html docs or any other locator--in Vertov, for example, the in/out timecode data looks to the user as if it exists in two separate fields, when it's really stored in the note itself as XML. It would be great if an interface like that for entering page numbers was added in the future.
Then there is there is another problem. When working on the 3x5 cards I used to shuffle them on my table, mostly to find some order especially just before writing a paper. Now this seems to be a bit more complicated with zotero. When you take notes from a book, or from a document, you make a list of annotations sorted under the book, or document. So when it comes to shuffling you have to detach them from the book i.e. make standalones of them. But being detached from the book, you risk to end up with dozens of standalones without knowing where they come from originally. So the question is: what comes nearest to the original shuffling process (which I regard as necessary to creative, yet systematic writing).
R
R
"First tag each note with a description, such as “chapter one”. "
Note-tagging hasn't been implemented yet; I'm sure the instructions (and the person who wrote them) mean to tag the parent item to which the child item (=note) is related. But the slip of the tongue in the instructions underscores the significance of tagging notes. I've read a number of threads regarding extending the functionality of notes - both child and standalone notes - and I'm puzzled as to why *at least* tagging capability for notes has not been added.
I do understand development priorities and milestones, and it seems like extending note-taking capability is not a high-priority at this point. I also understand the sentiments of those who are hesitant to integrate more complex note-taking / organization functionality with Zotero. The program is presently excellent at managing references. But without the extension of note-taking / organization functionality, I'm left thinking 3x5 notecards still (in this digital age) have appeal, especially when the alternative is the (very awkward/laborious) reports workaround.
I would love to see Zotero become a true replacement for 3x5 index card systems that many of us (I'm 30, in grad school) learned to use "back in the day". I take all my notes on the computer, and manage my references with Zotero. But continuity in WORKFLOW just isn't there, and could be if notes were bestowed with not-so-magic, but appropriate to their status in the research process, power.
Adding tagging functionality to notes (especially standalone notes) would be a great start. It would be equally useful if child notes could be "independently sorted" (ticket #672), i.e., for one to drag several child notes from a particular collection into a "notes" collection, maybe for a book chapter or article section (=a collection titled "Ch1" or "Sec1").
I know there are tickets for these things, but my point is that they are related in terms of workflow. As a research tool, I would love to see Zotero evolve in ways that improve not only the organization of references, but also the way we organize and construct our understanding of these references.
(Apologies for the verbose post; I've been saving this up for awhile.)
Thx Dan for the speedy response! This helps. I'll keep following the threads related to custom ordering of items (including/specicially notes) for news on that part of my post.
Lacking a sorting function in Zotero, I still work with index cards (referring to zotero) while writing, but this is far from ideal. I am also experimenting with writing papers on google docs together with zotero; search in zotero, sorting on google docs, but this is not the same as the old shuffling and sorting of cards. Moreover, google docs and zotero are not yet connected to each other (like word and zotero).
R
It would also be great if we could attach one note to another and so on: not just to items, but notes to notes, in different levels.
Many thanks!
Jes
As far as the Zotero tool I've put together goes, the README file at http://github.com/singingfish/zotero-browser explains the basics of what I've done to get web application style development with the zotero API, which simplifies the development process quite a lot. The shuffle notes idea is quite interesting, and I suspect that I may get around to implementing it next time I feel a dose of writers block coming on.
Amen! I spent 200 hours configuring Procite a long time ago to have an electronic bib AND note taking for my discipline. But Procite hasn't been updated since 2000 and Endnote would require the same laborious work around. What I did with Procite is format each source type so that it looked like an index card (header in bold, reference citation, my notes, then tags/keywords). Great for sorting (like Zotero) but I can also export to actual cardstock and cut them up as 4X6 index cards.
I wish Zotero could export to something other than reports (not useful). My last project had the electronic equivalent of 6,000 note cards and to shuffle them in the end I actually exported to Word and had them all (2 per sheet) printed and cut on card stock! Obviously I can have 6,000 "note cards" on Zotero but how do I shuffle them as with note cards.
It's funny: I'm always teaching new electronic research tools, I've turned my students on to Zotero but beyond a very short paper, they (and I) still return to index cards!! This would be a killer app.
(Yes, I know I brought this up years ago and got slammed but it seems that now returning years later to this forum that many other people think Zotero has developed so that this might be a next step?).
Thanks for listening.