first given name written, second and so on initialized

mk_dbfz

I am using the DIN 1505-2 style for citation and after taking a closer look into the norm I found out, that actually the first given name for monographies should be written completely (expanded) and all other given names of the authors shall be initialized.
E.g.
Ernst Theodor Amadeus Hoffmann should be
Hoffmann, Ernst T. A.

Right now all given names are expanded. Can anybody tell me how this can be changed ? Does the actual CSL STandard support this ?

Thanks Michael

fbennett

There is no setting for this in CSL. The simplest solution would be to enter the portions that should be rendered as initials as initials in the database.

Rintze

Also, wouldn't this be difficult to automate? Some people go by a given name that is not their first, in which case only expanding the first given name is awkward.

fbennett

Yes. I guess you would need some sort of list of alternative forms for individual authors. It could get very complicated (and unusable) very quickly.

mk_dbfz

Well, it would be complicated if individuals would have the choice of there first given name :-)
But in this case the DIN is giving the rule always to write out the first given name of the authors.

bdarcus

But in this case the DIN is giving the rule always to write out the first given name of the authors.

But rules aren't always as coherent and consistent as we assume them to be. I can almost guarantee you that no editor (well, really copy-editor) is going to complain if you have a name rendered like "T. Boone Pickens" (e.g. in this case, the person does not use his primary given name).

I also have a friend whose published pen name is an initialized given name.

E.g. that rule is based on the general (Western) case, and I'm sure the editors of the style would concede that.

mk_dbfz

Yes, there is always an exception from the rule, but this is something that might be changed manually.
And by the way, all of the citations styles are not very much more than rules.
I was just hoping for a tight realization of the rules that are given by the DIN 1505...

bdarcus

But my point is that coding that rule would fail in a lot of cases because of the complexity of real world names. As just one example, Spanish names often include two given names ("Juan Miguel" say), each of equivalent prominence.

The current design of name handling is intended to be international-friendly, and so open to a wider range of naming traditions. One consequence is it has no notion of a "middle name."

mk_dbfz

I am not sure if this is really the point why the possibility of building such a style should be impossible.
There are also in germany people who have two names e.g. Karl-Günther... You always have to take a look on your bibliography to control if the spellings and initializations are alright and then maybe change them by hand.

As Zotero has more than 1500 styles I guess there are still some which also run into problems like yours. Nonetheless these styles were some day defined and there are publisher which want these styles to be used.
And I think the csl standard is not for telling the people what to use but to help them use the style they need.

Please let us close this now, it is leading nowhere. I will put the second names manually initialized in the Zotero field and than it is doing what the DIN wants from me...