Greek citation style

azvd

I have created a style, based on Chicago, with CSL 0.8, I believe.
Not knowing my ways arround I translated all terns in Greek within the style.
It works fine under zotero 2.0.9.

Trying to see if it would work with 2.1 beta, I upgraded it to CSL 1.0 with www.shell-tools.net/index.php?op=xslt and validated with validator.nu

It begins:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<style xmlns="http://purl.org/net/xbiblio/csl" class="note" default-locale="el" version="1.0">

All terms in Greek:
<locale xml:lang="el">
<terms>
<term name="accessed">ημερομηνία πρόσβασης</term>
<term name="and">και</term>
etc
</terms>
</locale>

With Zotero 2.0.9 terms come up in English.
With Zotero 2.1 beta they come up in Greek but there are numerous other problems.

Moreover, chrome://zotero/content/tools/csledit.xul doesn't seem to work.

Am I correct to assume that CSL 1.0 styles do not work with Zotero 2.0.9?
Am I correct to assume that with a future Zotero 2.1 stable version the style will work?

Or, as I truly assume, I am doing something wrong?
Thanks!

fbennett

With Zotero 2.1 beta they come up in Greek but there are numerous other problems.

If you feed descriptions of the problems to this thread, I'll be happy to look at the processor and your CSL to see what changes are required to produce the results you're after.

azvd

In all fields, when it comes to names in greek:
last name appears first and there is no space between first and last name.

Example:
Jean Duvignaud, Ο ηθοποιός, μτφ ΡάιςΜυρτώ, Νεφέλη, Αθήνα 2000.
should be:
Jean Duvignaud, Ο ηθοποιός, μτφ. Μυρτώ Ράις, Νεφέλη, Αθήνα 2000.

Please note that also period is missing after μτφ (stands for <term name="translator" form="short">)

Thanks a lot.
I will be back with more!

fbennett

Got it. I was unsure of how Greek names should be formatted when building that part of the processor, and didn't have anyone to consult with. The error you are getting can be fixed easily (I'll make the change and test it now). If there is any way in which the formatting of Greek names should differ from that applied to names from other European languages, let me know and we'll sort it out.

fbennett

I have added the missing period after μτφ to el-GR in the locale trunk, and pushed the change to the CSL locales repository. It will turn up in Zotero in due course.

(Edit: Note that any terms defined in the style file itself will override their counterparts in the CSL locale support files. Also not that, unlike CSL 0.8.1, periods in CSL 1.0 are not added to abbreviations, but removed (for the obvious reason that removing all periods is simple, but adding periods only in the locations where they are required is beyond complicated). So if you retain the locale section in your style file, you will need to add the period there too.)

azvd

I am the one who did the translations!
If you notice there are no periods in short forms (except when I added them by mistake!).
The idea, right or wrong, was to add periods with a suffix.

In other cases though, in my style, they do come up:

ΧορνΠαντελής, Τα θεατρικά, επιμ. ΒαφειάδηΈφη, Ίδρυμα Γουλανδρή-Χορν, Αθήνα 1993.

επιμ stands for editor.

I am really confused with periods.
Plus test page chrome://zotero/content/tools/csledit.xul does not seem to work, so there is not much I can do to clarify things...

azvd

Very glad I could help.
Can't think of anything special concerning names in greek, when it comes to initials I guess it is a matter of choice to use periods or spaces between them.

One more example with various problems:
item type Book Section, including a book author and a book editor

ΆγραςΤέλλος, «Ο Καρυωτάκης και οι Σάτιρες», στο: στο ΚαρυωτάκηςΚώστας, Ποιήματα και πεζά, Εστία, Αθήνα χωρίς χρονολογία, σσ 52-79.

same problem with greek names.
στο (stands for term name "in") appears twice when book author is present (στο: is the correct one).
Editor does not appear at all.
χωρίς χρονολογία (stands for no date), should be in short-form (χ.χ.)

σσ stands for pp, yet multiple pages term was set to a single "σ" ending with a period (σ.)
I hope it is clear enough.
Thanks again.

fbennett

In CSL 1.0, I would recommend placing the periods in the locale strings explicitly, because it reduces the amount of complexity and clutter in the CSL (and so makes your life easier). But if the suffix-added period is vanishing unexpectedly for you, that may point to a flaw in the processor, and should be looked into. If that's the case, could you post the CSL of your style as a public gist on github, and post the link back to this thread?

https://gist.github.com/

fbennett

same problem with greek names.
στο (stands for term name "in") appears twice when book author is present (στο: is the correct one).
Editor does not appear at all.
χωρίς χρονολογία (stands for no date), should be in short-form (χ.χ.)I'm afraid I can't follow your description. The Chicago Fullnote style does not behave like this, so I'm afraid that we will need to have a copy of your style code in order to figure out what's broken. Very possibly the problem is not in the processor, but in your CSL code.

azvd

I have posted both 0.8 and 1.0 styles.

CSL 1.0
git://gist.github.com/715208.git

CLS 0.8
git://gist.github.com/715218.git

Here are two examples, with various problems with Zotero 2.1b2

Item type=Book Section
Zotero 2.0.9, CLS 0.8 (everything correct)
Τέλλος Άγρας, «Ο Καρυωτάκης και οι Σάτιρες», στο: Κώστας Καρυωτάκης, Ποιήματα και πεζά, μτφ. Andreas Dimitriadis, επιμ. Γ. Π. Σαββίδης, 7η έκδ., Εστία, Αθήνα 1998, σ. 52-79.

Zotero 2.1b2 CSL 1.0
ΆγραςΤέλλος, «Ο Καρυωτάκης και οι Σάτιρες», στο: στο ΚαρυωτάκηςΚώστας, Ποιήματα και πεζά, μτφ. Andreas Dimitriadis, 7η έκδ., Εστία, Αθήνα 1998, σσ 52-79.

Item type=Journal Article
Zotero 2.0.9, CLS 0.8 (everything correct)
Δημήτρης Σπάθης, «Ο σκηνοθέτης Γιαννούλης Σαραντίδης: μια διαδρομή από το ‘χθες’ στο ‘αύριο’ της νεοελληνικής σκηνής», Τα ιστορικά, τμ. 25, τχ. 49 (2008), σ. 377-378.

Zotero 2.1b2 CSL 1.0
ΣπάθηςΔημήτρης, «Ο σκηνοθέτης Γιαννούλης Σαραντίδης: μια διαδρομή από το ‘χθες’ στο ‘αύριο’ της νεοελληνικής σκηνής», Τα ιστορικά, τμ. 25, τχ. 49 (2008), (2008), σσ 377-378.

Please notice (other than the names in greek)
term "in" (στο) appears twice
editor does not appear at all
In journal article date appears twice
term for multiple pages was intended to be σ. (not σσ )

στο=in
τμ=volume
τχ=issue
επιμ=editor
μτφ=translator
έκδ=edition
σ=page
σσ=pages

Please excuse my mistakes.
Thanks for all your help!

azvd

I am afraid I have done something wrong. If links don't work,please help me so I can post the CSL style as a public gist on github, and post the link back to this thread.

fbennett

The links work fine.

The double "in" term arises because you have defined "στο" both as the "in" term, and as the "container-author" term. Inside your macro "container-title-note", you are rendering the "in" term explicitly with the suffix ": ", (line 615), and then applying a label to the "container-name" variable rendered immediately after (line 618). If you make the "container-author" label an empty string, the cite returns to normal. If I remember correctly, the "correct" behavior that you see under CSL 0.8 is due to a bug that prevents the label from rendering as it ought to do -- the explicit use of the term immediately above the cs:names node was a workaround, introduced in the Chicago styles and then populated through copying to other styles in the repository.

azvd

Thanks so much, double term fixed.
If only chrome://zotero/content/tools/csledit.xul was woking with 2.1b beta. Any alternatives?

fbennett

The missing editor under CSL 1.0 is due to a bug in citeproc-js. I've fixed and tested it, and the repaired processor should make its way into the next beta release of Zotero.

Many thanks for your careful reporting.

azvd

Thank you for all the help. Most problems solved!
Yet I still don't see how to get rid of the journal article double date.

D. Barnett, «The Performance Practice of Acting: The Eighteenth Century Part II: The Hands», Theatre Research International, τχ. 3 (1977), (1977), σ. 1-19.

What is even more puzzling is that the specific parenthesis form exists only in one macro:

<macro name="issued">
<choose>
<if variable="issued">
<choose>
<if type="article-journal" match="any">
<group prefix="(" suffix=")">
<date variable="issued">
<date-part name="day" suffix=" "/>
<date-part name="month" suffix=" "/>
<date-part name="year"/>
</date>
</group>
</if>

fbennett

I'll take a closer look later in the day. Good to hear that we're making progress!

fbennett

Actually, on a quick look, the "issue-note" macro renders the macro "issued" both when the item type is "article-journal", and also when it is not "article-newspaper", not "speech", and does have either "publisher-place" or "publisher".

azvd

It is quite clear now... Thanks again.

azvd

term "and" when in Greek allows no spaces between names:
Karl Reinhardt, Sophocles, μτφ. H. HarveyκαιD. Harvey, Blackwell, Oxford 1933.

if term is in English:
Karl Reinhardt, Sophocles, μτφ. H. Harvey and D. Harvey, Blackwell, Oxford 1933.

fbennett

I'm on it, thanks. Will test a fix and check it in soon.

(Edit: Ah, this will be fixed by changes already checked in.)

azvd

In the previously mention example (I omit what is not important below):

Item type=Book Section
Zotero 2.0.9, CLS 0.8 (everything correct)
Τέλλος Άγρας, «Ο Καρυωτάκης και οι Σάτιρες», στο: Κώστας Καρυωτάκης, Ποιήματα και πεζά, επιμ. Γ. Π. Σαββίδης, Εστία, Αθήνα 1998.

Zotero 2.1b2 CSL 1.0
ΆγραςΤέλλος, «Ο Καρυωτάκης και οι Σάτιρες», στο:ΚαρυωτάκηςΚώστας, Ποιήματα και πεζά, Εστία, Αθήνα 1998.

στο=in
επιμ=editor

you replied that:
The missing editor under CSL 1.0 is due to a bug in citeproc-js.

In case there is no book author but two editors, they appear before the book title (correct) and the second one appears again after the title (wrong):

ΆγραςΤέλλος, «Ο Καρυωτάκης και οι Σάτιρες», στο: ΣαββίδηςΓ. Π.καιΚαρυωτάκηςΚώστας (επιμ.), Ποιήματα και πεζά, επιμ. ΚαρυωτάκηςΚώστας, Εστία, Αθήνα 1998.

Is this because of the same bug?

fbennett

Quite possibly so. It seems to test normally now.

azvd

The following macro, from a valid CLS 1.0 style, on Zotero 2.0.9
gives the following desired result for subsequent citation:

Cuny, Une leçon de vie, vol 2.

With Zotero 2.1b2:
Cuny, Une leçon de vie, τ. 2, σ. .

τ. = vol
σ. = page

No matter what I tried, term "σ." is still there...

<macro name="point-locators-subsequent">
<group>
<choose>
<if locator="page" match="any">
<choose>
<if type="bill book graphic legal_case motion_picture report song" match="any">
<choose>
<if variable="volume">
<group>
<text term="volume" form="short" suffix=" "/>
<text variable="volume" suffix=", "/>
</group>
</if>
</choose>
</if>
</choose>
</if>
<else-if type="bill book graphic legal_case motion_picture report song" match="any">
<group>
<text term="volume" form="short" suffix=" "/>
<text variable="volume" suffix="."/>
</group>
</else-if>
</choose>
<label variable="locator" form="short" suffix=" "/>
<text variable="locator"/>
</group>
</macro>

fbennett

A locator and its label should be wrapped in their own group. This will cause the label to be suppressed when there is no value in the companion variable. See the modified version of the macro, below. For a full description of the behavior, see the Group section of the CSL 1.0 specification.

(Just in case, note that Zotero 2.0 will normally not process CSL 1.0 styles correctly.)

<macro name="point-locators-subsequent">
<group>
<choose>
<if locator="page" match="any">
<choose>
<if type="bill book graphic legal_case motion_picture report song" match="any">
<choose>
<if variable="volume">
<group>
<text term="volume" form="short" suffix=" "/>
<text variable="volume" suffix=", "/>
</group>
</if>
</choose>
</if>
</choose>
</if>
<else-if type="bill book graphic legal_case motion_picture report song" match="any">
<group>
<text term="volume" form="short" suffix=" "/>
<text variable="volume" suffix="."/>
</group>
</else-if>
</choose>
<group>
<label variable="locator" form="short" suffix=" "/>
<text variable="locator"/>
</group>
</group>
</macro>

azvd

Thank you so much, again.

It did need one more correction, though:
The above macro results:

Cuny, Une leçon de vie, τ. 2, .

When, after, a frustrating trial and error ordeal, I changed
<if locator="page" match="any">
to
<if variable="locator" match="any">

I got the much desired:
Cuny, Une leçon de vie, τ. 2.

All's Well That Ends Well!

fbennett

Sorry for missing that detail; I didn't check the code that I used for testing against the code in your post. The CSL language and the processor are pretty solid at this point. As you work out each piece of the logic, you can trust your knowledge going forward.

azvd

https://gist.github.com/781075

I have posted the latest version of the style in Greek I have been working on.

With zotero 2.1 b2 there were still some problems but otherwise it was working.
With 2.1b4 it doesn’t work at all.
Any ideas?

fbennett

The style isn't valid, so you'll need to fix it first. At line 1154, in the second key node inside the sort section, the style calls a macro "author" to get the key, but there is no such macro in the style.

Here are some notes on validation of styles.

azvd

It works fine now, all I had to do was to delete this one line...
Strangely, the style had passed the validator.nu test and the bad line did not cause any problem with the previous beta version.
Other than that, I am very happy to see the style fully working under zotero 2.1 b4.
Thank you very much for all your help.

Rintze

@fbennett: most validators don't catch this. While the CSL 1.0 schema includes Schematron rules to check for non-existing macros that are being called, most validators (including validator.nu, which I think uses Jing) ignore embedded Schematron rules (this is the reason why update-styles.sh of CSL utils extracts the Schematron rules and puts them in a separate file).

kikika32

Hi,
I am having problems with the citation. I get instead of (Agarwal at al 2010) i am getting (Agarwal κ.ά. 2010)
and in bib: Agarwal, R. κ.ά. συγγρ., 2010. Technological viewpoints (frames) about electronic prescribing in physician practices. Journal of the American Medical Informatics Association: JAMIA, 17(4), σσ.425-431.

How could I fix that?