Add items by identifier is a wonderful tool--when it works

ChaplainTom

I've had a surprising number of instances when the add-by-identifier feature returns the following: "Zotero could not find a record for the specified identifier. Please verify the identifier and try again." Yet, ZoteroBib finds it immediately. On rare occasions, I have closed Zotero and tried again later. On the second attempt, the tool found the item, but not usually. Different algorithms, I suppose, but it is puzzling and time-consuming.

aborel

I think it's always worth remembering that the preferred entry method is the browser connector https://www.zotero.org/support/adding_items_to_zotero#via_your_web_browser

This being said, can you give a few specific examples? "add by identifier" includes several different cases, it would be good to determine which one(s) are causing your problems and hopefully reproduce and analyze them.

adamsmith

ZoteroBib doesn't actually use different algorithms -- so (with the exception of URLs which don't work in Zotero by design) if an identifier works there but not in Zotero, that's always worth reporting. The other way around (Zotero works but ZotBib doesn't) may occasionally happen.

ChaplainTom

Thanks for the quick response. I should have mentioned that I have been concentrating on adding books, so the identifier has always been an ISBN. Additionally, the browser connector is rarely the best option when adding a book. For an academic publisher, perhaps you are correct. But for many mainstream publishers, the browser connector enters the item as either a web page or a blog post, so I need to do some significant editing. When the add-by-identifier is able to locate the book via ISBN, the entry is usually much more complete, and I have to do much less editing.

aborel

I agree that web pages where one can find books are not always the best metadata source (typically: library catalogs yes, major booksellers often yes, publisher websites sometimes, blogs and other review pages not so much), and when they're not it takes time to locate a better one. I understand your point.

Anyway, specific examples are still essential when it comes to analyzing metadata import issues. Can you post a couple of those and describe what's going wrong with each of them?

adamsmith

If you don't get ISBNs via Zotero, that's typically some Worldcat issue -- we can say more with details on the ISBNs.

That said, the browser icon used on books found in library catalogs is indeed one of the best way of adding books, too.

ChaplainTom

Thanks, @adamsmith & @aborel. When I have a few more examples of specific ISBNs that weren't found by Zotero, I'll post them. I can't backtrack to find those that were already an issue. Thanks for the tip about library entries, but that doesn't help me much, either--I don't have access to an academic library. I was able to use Connector to enter an item from my public library. It was helpful, but I had to do some editing. Interestingly, the data pulled over did not include the publisher or ISBN. That was only one book, though. I saw an earlier unrelated post about the Library of Congress catalog--but I don't know if I can access it remotely without an academic affiliation. I have a Library of Congress reader identification card, but I have to go in person to activate it.

adamsmith

All academic library catalogs, certainly in the US, are public, even when the libraries themselves aren't

aborel

"Interestingly, the data pulled over did not include the publisher or ISBN": again, please be more specific so that others can reproduce your problem. What book? From what exact page?

ChaplainTom

The book is "Beastly: The 40,000-year story of animals and us" by Keggie Carew. ISBN 978-1-4197-6703-6. This is the page from my public library that I used with Connect: https://mcpl.aspendiscovery.org/GroupedWork/6e55937c-07fc-10b3-59f4-e681f41efa2b-eng/Home?searchId=28310318&recordIndex=1&page=1&searchSource=local
I'm guessing you can't access that page unless you have an MCPL library card.
It might be helpful to you that the Library Catalog info pulled in is: mcpl.aspendiscovery.org
Is this what you're looking for?

AbeJellinek

Thanks, it looks like we should be able to get better information for books in that catalog (and others powered by the same software). We'll work on that.

aborel

Progress :-) Now does this book cause problems if you add it by identifier (the original question)? It's working for me.

ChaplainTom

@aborel: "Anyway, specific examples are still essential when it comes to analyzing metadata import issues. Can you post a couple of those and describe what's going wrong with each of them?"

These two ISBNs didn't work this morning, using the "Add items by identifier" feature: 9781914548046 and 9781250757975. "Zotero could not find a record for the specified identifier. Please verify the identifier and try again."

The first one, ending in 046, was also not found by Zotero Bib, but was found by the DuckDuckGo search engine. The first three times I tried it in ZoteroBib, I got the banner: "An error occurred while citing this source." I eventually got "Item not found." This book, "Dispatches from a time between worlds," is from a small publisher, Perspectiva Press. I wouldn't think that should make a difference. Does it?

The second one, ending in 975, was found by Zotero Bib. The book is "We are the weather," published by Picador.

Closing and opening Zotero and ZoteroBib didn't make a difference.

Thanks.

AbeJellinek

I'm assuming you meant 9781914568046 for the first one. 9781914548046 isn't a valid ISBN (the last digit is a check digit, and it doesn't validate). In any case, yeah, that book doesn't seem to be in any of the ISBN catalogs that Zotero checks. There's no centralized database of ISBN metadata, so until it's catalogued in a national database (like the Library of Congress) or held by a library that contributes to WorldCat, Zotero won't be able to find it.

The second ISBN (9781250757975) works for me. If it still doesn't work for you, we'd need a Zotero Debug ID for an attempt to add it.

ChaplainTom

D1505993801

AbeJellinek

Could you try again after updating Zotero to the latest stable release (7.0.19)?

ChaplainTom

I'm on 7.0.16. It tells me there are no updates available and that it is checking periodically for updates. I'll look again in a couple of hours, after I get off my next call.
Thanks!

dstillman

Currently you have to install 7.0.19 from the download page if you have 7.0.16. Your data won’t be affected.

ChaplainTom

I upgraded to 7.0.16. ISBN 9781250757975 was still not found. Here is the new debug ID: D877033443

Thanks.

damnation

I think you should update to 7.0.19 as mentioned and then try again.

dstillman

(That was a typo. That latest Debug ID is from 7.0.19.)

AbeJellinek

@ChaplainTom: Pushed an update. Your Zotero translators should auto-update within a few minutes, or you can update translators manually from the Advanced pane of the Zotero settings. Let me know if you continue to have issues.

ChaplainTom

Oops. You're right about the typo--I had upgraded to 7.0.19. Now I'm in 7.0.20 and I manually updated the translators. Still not successful in finding 9781250757975.

Is it really worth the effort to keep working on this one ISBN? Unlike the other one from this morning, this is from a (formerly) mainstream publisher, and ZoteroBib was able to find it, but still . . .

AbeJellinek

This is a general issue with WorldCat ISBN resolution on your machine (and probably others). WorldCat is blocking Zotero's requests, and our existing workarounds for that situation don't seem to be working. This will affect adding other books by ISBN in the future unless we find a new workaround or something changes on WorldCat's end.

It would be helpful if you could provide another Debug ID for the same ISBN, but I understand if it isn't a priority for you to debug this issue now that it doesn't matter anymore!

ChaplainTom

Herewith: D366592765

Thanks for all your help!