No Updating of underlined footnotes MacWindows

notsoeazy

Working on a Mac, where I disabled the automatic updates in the document preferences to make a large word document with thousands of footnotes work. And it did work, thanks to the help I got here I made it work. So, now I wanted to update these citations via Windows, as recommended - but somehow the footnotes - which are underlined, signaling that they are not updated/linked yet - are still underlined, even after refreshing and enabling the automatic updates again. What am I doing wrong here? Thanks in advance!

damnation

How long did you let it run?

notsoeazy

hours, days. shortened the document today to 50 pages, it ran since morning, i think its done, last rows say only this (see bottom) for hours, but footnotes are still unerlined and bibliography doesnt update / include the underlined footnotes

(2)(+0005000): Waiting for database backup to complete

(3)(+0000011): Last backup of database 'zotero' was less than 1440 minutes ago -- skipping backup

(4)(+0000008): SELECT itemID FROM items JOIN deletedItems USING (itemID) WHERE libraryID=? AND dateDeleted <= DATE('NOW', '-30 DAYS') [1]

(3)(+1683444): Last backup of database 'zotero' was less than 1440 minutes ago -- skipping backup

(4)(+0005001): SELECT itemID FROM items JOIN deletedItems USING (itemID) WHERE libraryID=? AND dateDeleted <= DATE('NOW', '-30 DAYS') [1]

(3)(+2907095): Last backup of database 'zotero' was less than 1440 minutes ago -- skipping backup

(4)(+0004999): SELECT itemID FROM items JOIN deletedItems USING (itemID) WHERE libraryID=? AND dateDeleted <= DATE('NOW', '-30 DAYS') [1]

notsoeazy

Debug ID: D1074296323

adomasven

You have 490 citations in your document that you have edited manually, Zotero has prompted you about whether you want to keep those changes, and you said Yes. That is why Zotero is not updating them. This either occurred due to you modifying every inserted citation, or because of a bug. It would be great if you would elaborate on this.

If you want Zotero to update them, you will either have to manually press Add/Edit Citation on every one of them and discard your changes, or use the Switch to a Different Word Processor… option, but reimport it back into your document. Note that any changes you have made to your citations and told Zotero to keep will be discarded.

notsoeazy

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, I edited them manually, because the Chicago Manual for newspapers didnt show the date, which was in my case important - so I edited all of them manually.

when zotero first went through my big document, I indeed had to click several hundred times "yes please keep those changes." but after going through all of it, they were still underlined. in the short version of the document, Zotero actually didnt ask me to click yes or no anymore to discard or keep changes. probably, because he already did these changes in the basic document which I separated into chapters and maybe I cancelled the process to early? I would really like to keep my changes, but also update the citations. Is it somehow possible? it was no problem before when i still had the automated updates enabled

damnation

What is the change you need. I'd rather help you modify the citation style and you having updateable citations than this.

notsoeazy

Hmm, I see. Thanks! I need the newspapers with the newspaper name and the date: The Nigeria Standard, "Here Comes Festac Durbar," February 6, 1977 and if there is an author I want it Schröder in The New York Times, "XYZ Title," Januar 1, 2001.
The application of short titles should be possible, too.

damnation

Right. Which exact Chicago style are you using though? CMOS 17, full note?

This style will render a newspaper article like so:

New York Times, “Rooftop Greenhouse Will Boost City Farming,” April 6, 2012.

https://gist.github.com/POBrien333/3c4a418062d42938561a378548e0bee8/raw/e78a6fc0ff42af7f483dc153072a6cd3628c9362/chicago-fullnote-bibliography-notsoeazy.csl

notsoeazy

I use note.

Oh wow, thank you so much. Do I have to combine Chicago note now with this one?

damnation

No, this is Chicago with the change you requested. Install it. It'll show up as a new style that you can select. You can switch between this version and the original CMoS as you wish.

notsoeazy

Cool, thank you so much! Can I somehow change that into a (short) note Chicago?

damnation

Ah, you're using "note".... Would've been good to know before.

https://gist.github.com/POBrien333/3c4a418062d42938561a378548e0bee8/raw/5d0ab1b3dcea1103669bc013c8b85e65df703d60/chicago-note-bibliography-notsoeazy.csl

notsoeazy

yes, thats it! Thank you so much, incredible support here, really great!

notsoeazy

This unfortunately doesn't work.
The big doc he couldnt processes and everything crashed. Expected.
I divided the big doc in chapters.
I enabled the new citation style, enabled automatic citation updates, refreshed, and then changed the word processor, and refreshed again. But the only outcome is footnotes looking like this:

ITEM CSL_CITATION {"citationID":"2L67bwTn","properties":{"formattedCitation":"Hall, \\uc0\\u8220{}Encoding and Decoding in the Television Discourse.\\uc0\\u8221{}","plainCitation":"Hall, “Encoding and Decoding in the Television Discourse.”","dontUpdate":true,"noteIndex":65},"citationItems":[{"id":2991,"uris":["http://zotero.org/users/6908320/items/SVM2BAV6"],"itemData":{"id":2991,"type":"chapter","container-title":"Essential Essays, Volume 1","ISBN":"978-1-4780-0241-3","note":"DOI: 10.1515/9781478002413-014","page":"257-276","publisher":"Duke University Press","source":"DOI.org (Crossref)","title":"Encoding and Decoding in the Television Discourse","URL":"https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9781478002413-014/html","author":[{"family":"Hall","given":"Stuart"}],"editor":[{"family":"Morley","given":"David"}],"accessed":{"date-parts":[["2023",2,26]]},"issued":{"date-parts":[["2020"]],"season":"1978"}}}],"schema":"https://github.com/citation-style-language/schema/raw/master/csl-citation.json"} 258.

The Debug Submit is delaying 240000 ms at this moment.

damnation

https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/word_field_codes
is what you're seeing, I'd assume.

notsoeazy

I would guess no, the field mentioned there in the options of word is not toggled and if I toggle it looks different. To me, it looks like zotero didnt finish processing

notsoeazy

https://s3.amazonaws.com/zotero.org/images/forums/u6908320/f9mb5fc41lxpiyti0m4t.png

notsoeazy

After checking " Show field codes instead of their values":

https://s3.amazonaws.com/zotero.org/images/forums/u6908320/3v3kurby9n63r10h469r.png

notsoeazy

Alt F9 doesnt change anything.

notsoeazy

Unfortunately, I still could not solve this

adomasven

It seems that you used the Moving Documents with Zotero Citations Between Word Processors procedure. If you are splitting your document up into multiple parts, you don't need to do that. You only need to copy the chapters and paste them into a new document.

notsoeazy

Okay, that's fine; I would love to skip that step. But the underlined citations won't update then. They stay underlined and not updated whatever I do. The only way to make them go is to change the word processor. I enable automated updates, it doesn't work. I refresh manually, it doesn't work. I change citation style, it doesn't work. Why?

I now split the document to max 25 pages, which made at least the word processor change work. But the offered adapted Chicago note seems to be wrong anyways as it doesn't show references the way I need. So, I am sticking with the normal Chicago note and my manual changes.

I actually just need my bibliography, including all my references, which need to be updated. My time is running out, and I absolutely don't understand what the problem is for Zotero with updating my footnotes. I bought a Windows laptop just to fix this Zotero problem, but even Windows does not help.

adomasven

Unless you explain what you did step-by-step, we're unlikely to be able to help you. Zotero operations normally won't put your documents into an unrecoverable state unless you perform some incompatible editing in e.g. the document transfer state.

The easiest thing to do to make Zotero update your citations again is to use the Switch Word Processors button in your original document, and then press Refresh.

If that takes too long then Restart Zotero, split the document into chapters, then use Switch Word Processors button and refresh in the individual chapters.

If you just need the bibliography, you should just use the Refresh button in your original document, but note that your edited footnotes will not be updated.

Citation styles can be edited to format citations as you need, but you need to provide clear instructions on what changes you need, or better yet, the guidelines from your university that you are using. If you do, damnation may be able to help, but they are a community member volunteering their time, so it depends on whether they are available.

If you run into any errors, please clearly explain what you did step-by-step and we'll try to help you.

notsoeazy

I conclude from this reply that it does not work to refresh or update my footnotes because I manually changed the footnotes and that I must change the word processor and probably also the citation style to make it work. Because my first priority is to create a bibliography that includes all of my footnotes, even the underlined ones. At this point I don't even care anymore how the footnotes look like, I really just need to make it somehow work without manually writing 70 pages of references.

adomasven

Then all you need to do is press Refresh in your original document or, possibly, Add/Edit Bibliography if you hadn't inserted it before.

For the record, as far as I can tell, this is your situation: You have a document where you manually edited every inserted footnote, because the citation style you were using didn't correctly display them and told Zotero to not update it.

The "correct" way to fix this is to change the citations so that Zotero updates them again. This can either be done by manually pressing Add/Edit Citation with the cursor in each citation. Since this is likely unfeasible, you should use the "Switch Word Processors" button, but instead of switching to a different word processor, simply press "Refresh" in the same document and "reimport" the citations, which will reset all citations to be automatically updated by Zotero again.

After that you need to choose the correct citation style, either by installing a style that formats your citations in the way that you want, or by asking someone here to create it for you, which will format your citations correctly.

If you run into trouble doing any of this, please post with the exact steps of what you did and what happened, and we will be able to help. However it is very hard to help without knowing what you did in the first place.

notsoeazy

Thank you very much. I wasn't aware that it is possible to individually click the footnotes and change them, as it did not work on my Mac. On Windows, this works, and it is actually the only way to update my citations. Now, the adjusted citation from your colleague also shows perfectly fine. It is a lot of manual work, but I have done this for a couple of days now, and it is a workaround I am happy with. I am still baffled that all other options do not work - like the refresh button, etc. - but I guess this is because I manually messed so much with the citations. When I finish manually cleaning most of them, I will try automatic options again, like the refresh button. Maybe after cleaning the biggest mess, it will work.

I was a bit hesitant to describe my steps because there are not many more steps to describe. I manually edited my footnotes after including them with Zotero Plugin because it didn't show how I wanted them. I did that mostly because Zotero on Mac was so slow that I had to adjust with workarounds. I switched to Windows to update the footnotes I disabled on Mac to be able to include footnotes at all - this made it possible to work on Mac. But it made my footnotes underlined, which I couldn't change; whatever processor, reference style, or refresh button I clicked in whatever sorting.

adomasven

In the screenshots you have posted on 22 December you showed Zotero citations as hyperlinks, which would happen if you used the "Switch Word Processors..." button, but the issue you have described also sounded like maybe you split your document into multiple pieces. Since you did not describe in full what you did to get to that state, we couldn't really offer assistance.

So going forward, if you still have trouble with this document, please describe in detail what you have done to get to whatever troubled state you are in.

The reason for underlining is described here https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/citations_underlined . Since you manually edited those citations, and when Zotero explicitly asked if it should keep your edits and no longer update those citations, you said "Yes", Zotero does exactly that.