Changing the language packages - where is it?

Sussoo

Sorry if not written right or in right place. Just started to use zotero, and being an almost-no-computer-skills -person

Just fixed the date problem in Citation styles. (From written y-m-d to in numbers d-m-y)

Now should fix the way it handles things without date.
It cites them like this (in Finnish): "ei pvm" and I should get it to do it like this: "n.d."
So e.g. from (VN, ei pvm.). -> to (VN, n.d.).

Where (and how) could I adjust the language package (or what ever its name is) ?

Tried to search here and in google, but don't even know the right terms with which to search.

dstillman

You choose the bibliography language from the same place where you choose the citation style (e.g., the Document Preferences window for the word processor plugins).

adamsmith

And if you actually need to adjust *within* a specific language, you'd have to modify the CSL citation style, adding (or changing) a <locale><terms> section for the language in questions.

https://www.zotero.org/support/dev/citation_styles/style_editing_step-by-step

Sussoo

I mean the latter; I have it in Finnish, and that works quite okay. With some exceptions - like the "ei pvm." in quoting, which should be "n.d. "
(So when there's no date/year in the reference, it should write "n.d.", not "ei pvm.")

But I cannot find the place where those are and can be changed.

I already changed the apa7 style to write dates like this: "19.4.2022", not "2022 April 19." (But also got it wrong - now it doesn't write any year, when there's no date :/ - so it writes right 19.4.2022, but if it's only 2022, it writes nothing. Should find a place to ask that, too :) )

And yes, I'm a woman in her 50's with almost no computer skills, so its all about trying, failing, trying again and making some serious googling :)

adamsmith

In the APA 7 style, there is
<locale xml:lang="fi">
<terms>
<term name="letter">henkilökohtainen viestintä</term>
<term name="letter" form="short">kirje</term>
</terms>
</locale>

Any further changes to terms you'd add as another term line, so e.g.

<locale xml:lang="fi">
<terms>
<term name="letter">henkilökohtainen viestintä</term>
<term name="letter" form="short">kirje</term>
<term name="no date" form="short">n.d.</term>
</terms>
</locale>

You can ask about the date issue here, too, but you'd likely have to say what code you changed. I can't even think of any way to get what you're describing.

Sussoo

Yes. I found that part, too, but "henkilökohtainen viestintä" = personal communication
"kirje" = letter

And "ei pvm" = no date. (n.d.)

So these don't talk about the same thing?

Shouldn't I know the right terms (so how they firstly are there in the code) to make the correction?

I wonder if it could be like this?

"*locale xml:lang="fi"*
* terms*
* term name="no date"n.d./term*
* term name="no date" form="short" n.d.*/term*
* /terms*
*/locale*"
?
Well, i might give it a try. Doesn't cost to try :)
Oh f.... it deleted (doesn't show) the rows around :) There was more text when I posted that :)
-> It doesn't show the commands. I took away the > and < (and put some * instead) - wonder if it now shows the text.. :)

Sussoo

.How do you put those screenshots here?

adamsmith

Sorry, I mangled formatting above -- should now be clearer. And yes, do just try it out.
To display code here put it between <code> and </code>

Sussoo

THAT WORKED!!! THANKS!!!

Now about the other problem - if your nerves still hold up my dumb a** questions – The year or no year -thing…

SO: this is what the reference and the list of references should look like:

"(Kampman, 2021; Luukka, 2020)
AND
Kampman, U. (26.1.2021). Kirjan nimi.
Luukka, P. (2020). Toisen kirjan nimi"

BUT… If I do the code like this:


<choose>
<if variable="issued">
<date variable="issued">
<date-part name="year"/>
</date>
<text variable="year-suffix"/>
<choose>
<if type="article-magazine article-newspaper broadcast interview motion_picture pamphlet personal_communication post post-weblog song speech webpage" match="any">
<!-- Many video and audio examples in manual give full dates. Err on the side of too much information. -->
<date variable="issued">
<date-part prefix="" name="day"/>
<date-part prefix="." name="month" form="numeric" suffix=""/>
<date-part prefix="." name="year" suffix=""/>
</date>
</if>


I'LL get one additional year before the date. ”202126.1.2021”, but the next with only year (2020) right.

" (Kampman, 2021; Luukka, 2020)
AND
Kampman, U. (202126.1.2021). Kirjan nimi.
Luukka, P. (2020). Toisen kirjan nimi.”


AND IF I remove the lines

<date variable="issued">
<date-part name="year"/>
</date>


SO, like this:


<if variable="issued">

<text variable="year-suffix"/>
<choose>
<if type="article-magazine article-newspaper broadcast interview motion_picture pamphlet personal_communication post post-weblog song speech webpage" match="any">
<!-- Many video and audio examples in manual give full dates. Err on the side of too much information. -->
<date variable="issued">
<date-part prefix="" name="day"/>
<date-part prefix="." name="month" form="numeric" suffix=""/>
<date-part prefix="." name="year" suffix=""/>
</date>


I'LL GET
"(Kampman, 2021; Luukka, 2020)
AND
Kampman, U. (26.1.2021). Kirjan nimi.
Luukka, P. Toisen kirjan nimi"

SO, the one with whole date is right. But the one with only year doesn’t show the year in the list of references ” Luukka, P. Toisen kirjan nimi ” < Year missing.

I cannot figure out, what the rows do – so how should I change it to get it all right.

adamsmith

The if type line tests for certain item types and only prints the date for those.
You'd want to get rid of those if you always want full dates, so

<if variable="issued">
<date variable="issued">
<date-part prefix="" name="day"/>
<date-part prefix="." name="month" form="numeric" suffix=""/>
<date-part prefix="." name="year" suffix=""/>
</date>
<text variable="year-suffix"/>

You'll need to make sure that you delete the closing </if> and </choose> in the code as well.

Sussoo

No, this is what it should look like:

"(Kampman, 2021; Luukka, 2020)
AND
Kampman, U. (26.1.2021). Kirjan nimi.
Luukka, P. (2020). Toisen kirjan nimi"

So date for articles etc, and only year for books.
But the date should be d-m-y (so as it is above)
AND the one with only a year should come with the year only

The problem is: If I delete the year-part before all the if's, it won't come to those with only a year (there is none anymore - i took it off.
And if I let it be there, the date comes after it.

So, I needed a way to put the year last - not first - and if there is a date, it would come before it.

(How ever hard this can be to try and tell what I mean and get it so that one could understand.. Would perhaps be in finnish, too, but in english.. oh no... :) lol )

adamsmith

I'll note that, stylistically, this is actually a bad idea: APA style specifically puts the year first (which isn't standard in English, either) to reflect the logic of in-text citations which only have the year. If you want your style to follow APA's logic, I'd keep the year first.

But if you do want it the way you have it above, you'd need something like


<if variable="issued">
<choose>
<if type="article-magazine article-newspaper broadcast interview motion_picture pamphlet personal_communication" match="any">
<date variable="issued">
<date-part prefix="" name="day"/>
<date-part prefix="." name="month" form="numeric" suffix=""/>
<date-part prefix="." name="year" suffix=""/>
</date>
</if>
<else>
<text variable="issued" form="numeric" date-parts="year"/>
</else>
</choose>
<text variable="year-suffix"/>
</if>

make sure the if type lists all item types for which you need full dates.

Sussoo

Oh no. It's not about what I want, it's about how the apa7 should work and what the school, which uses apa7 as a standard, demands us to do whilst writing the essays and thesis. :/ Maybe this would already be a question for the "requesting new styles" or "reporting errors"

.. "If a CSL style doesn’t give the expected output, first make sure that you are running the latest (stable) version of Zotero, and have the most recent version of the style installed from the Zotero Style Repository. Once you have made sure that the style deviates from the style guide, instructions for authors, or published examples, report the error to the Zotero forums. For your post, use the title “Style Error: [Name of style]”, and give a link to, or excerpt from, the style guide that shows that the CSL style is wrong. You can also try to edit the style yourself. "

and "If you can't find the style you're looking for in the Zotero Style Repository, feel free to request a style. When requesting styles, please provide formatted references for the Campbell/Pedersen article and the Mares chapter listed on the linked page. Please also provide a link to a free-to-access article using the style (if available). You can also try to create the style yourself. "
https://www.zotero.org/support/styles

Though I don't even understand all the required details in the request. Have to try, still. Thank you very much for your help and patience and advices.

Sussoo

Oh no.. It's not the apa7 .. It really looks like that.

"Streefkerk, R. (2019, October 11). APA 7th edition: The most notable changes. Scribbr. https://www.scribbr.com/apa-style/apa-seventh-edition-changes/ "

And how our school says it should look (the finnish version of writing the date is normally like this, not like in the english language above)

"Hämäläinen, U. (1.5.2016). Professorin potkut. Helsingin Sanomat, C12 13."

So it's not about apa7 per se, but the finnish version of it - which should also have the above mentioned twist, besides the wordings in finnish. I thought it's easier to make the style work than manually correct them all.. Dunno, if I was right - or am I just stubborn idiot, for not giving up.

adamsmith

I understand. All I'm saying is that whoever adapted APA style to Finnish in your guidance (there's no official Finnish APA style) didn't understand the logic of dates in APA style -- but nothing you can do about that.

See if the above code makes sense and helps you get the output you want.