Endnote: Adding categories to Refman

Well I successfully (almost) imported my library from Endnote. However,various categories are missing, such as, series, and reprint. I imagine I have to reformat the Refman file to include these and others. Is this possible? How do I do it?
  • edited October 18, 2010
    I think you're going to need to be more specific. What do you mean by "categories are missing" exactly? E.g. what's a "category" in this context? Assume people reading this have no experience with RefMan.
  • Sorry, by category I mean things like item type, title, author, etc. There are categories that Refman does not seem to have that Endnote and Zotero have, such as, series and series number, and there are categories that Endnote has, which Refman and Zotero do not seem to have, such as series abbreviation, journal abbreviation, and reprint.
  • I'm not clear on what exactly you're doing, but as a start, look at the file you're exporting into Zotero with a text editor like notepad.
    Are those categories (I'd call them fields) in that file?
    If not, this isn't really anything we can address - you'll have to find a way to get a complete output from Endnote/Refman.
    If yes, how does a sample entry look like?
  • edited October 18, 2010
    Yes, "categories" is the wrong word; "fields" is more appropriate. And as adamsith also suggests, it's important to first figure out what your application is exporting.

    I'd actually go a little farther though. First, find two or three records that show the problem. Then export it to as many of the following formats as you can: RIS, Endnote, BibTeX. Then take a look (in a text editor) and see which ones includes most of your data. If Zotero doesn't import all of that data, then report back with details.
  • Ah yes, fields: the correct term would not come to me. In Endnote it has TY-book, AT-author's name, PY year. I assume Zotero translates the TY, AT, as Type, Author etc., and puts them in the correct fields in Zotero. Refman seems to use T3 for series title, but I do not see anything for series editor, or series abreviation etc. So I guess I need to know what codes to put into Refman for the fields "series," "series editor," "series abreviation" so Zotero can read them. I would also need to add certain fields to Zotero. For example, in the fields for Zotero, I see series, and series number, but not series editor, or series abbreviation. Likewise for journal abreviation, and a few others I can not think of at the top of my head. My usual output style is SBL which is very complicated and particular output style, because there are many long series and journal titles so in the footnotes just the abbreviations for these are given. They also like to give credit to series editors etc.
  • you can't add fields to Zotero.
    There is a field for journal abbreviation (it's just a bit down).
    Zotero uses the official RIS specifications on import:
    http://www.refman.com/support/risformat_intro.asp
    (it might not in all cases - feel free to report those - it's supposed to).
  • So RefMan is exporting RIS. Try the A3 tag for the series editor and JA for the periodical abbreviation.

    You can poke around more here to see if there's one for the series abbreviation, but it's not looking promising.

    Make sure the RIS it exports includes as much of that information as possible, and then check again how Zotero handles it.
  • Well thanks, I appreciate your time and effort, but it seems that Zotero cannot do the things I want it to. I also just noticed their does not seem to be "edited book" for item type (these books do not have authors but editors, and "edited by" needs to be put in references, whether foot or end note or bibliography.

    It is a shame, because I had heard good things about Zotero. My suggestion to the powers that be is that they add the fields mentioned above. I would look at Endnote and make sure than any field that is possible in Endnote is available in Zotero. Also, since many in the scholarly community use Endnote, it would make sense that a program be developed that can read the Endnote library files directly, and convert them just as they do the Refman library files. I am not a tech person, and do not know whether what I am suggesting is feasible. However, I think a lot of people would make the switch if the first suggestion was implemented, and the second suggestion would make the switch super easy.
  • your wrong about edited books
    http://www.zotero.org/support/kb/edited_volumes_and_book_chapters
    (this is about chapter, but the instruction about editors applies as well).

    Endnote libraries are proprietary, so that's not going to happen.

    Endnote has a lot of limits and problems itself, plus a very slow development cycle and no, I don't think Zotero should spend too much time looking at Endnote. If you want to trust your data to software that saves it in a proprietary format and doesn't adhere to industry standards on export that's your choice, but it's a bad idea in the medium run.

    With respect to SBL I'd guess that you probably get better overall output from Zotero. Zotero's style language is superior to Endnote's and allows for a lot more precise formatting.

    You may also overestimate the degree to which Endnote is a standard. If University libraries stopped subsidizing it with tens of thousands of dollars every year through campus licenses, Endnote would be a dwindling niche product within a couple of years. Which is why I hope (and wouldn't be surprised if) libraries will start considering this as a waste of money (a campus license for Endnote costs close to 10,000US$). In that case you'll be stuck with Endnote's overpriced updates and it's lock-in design.
    I can really only recommend running from that software if you're under 55.
  • Thanks again for your comments.

    I fully agree with you about Endnote, and that is why I would love to switch, and do not by any means in my comments intend to give the impression I am attacking Zotero. I am simply stating problems for me to switch.

    I looked at the link for edited book, so I guess one simply changes the author field to and editor field from the drop down menu. As it stands I would have to change all the edited book files in my library. From a quick look at other items in the library and the way they come up in either Chicago or SBL styles, work would be needed on most library items (for example, the editor of edited works is repeated in the publisher field for some reason).

    This still leaves the question of series editor and series abbreviation: would I simply have to change each entry by hand in my articles etc.?

    As I said, I would love to switch, and would even donate money to Zotero, but it seems as it stands, it will take a lot of time and effort to fix up my library records on top of learning a whole new system, no matter how intuitive it is (I may still dabble in spare time). So I will stick with Endnote, until the switch is easier.

    I still stand by my suggestions in regards to expanding the fields, and making it easier to switch over. I have no idea if Endnote is the standard (I simply said--deliberatly vaguely-- that many in the scholarly community use Endnote), but your comment about libraries and campus licenses would indicate it is well established, and is getting new people through these licenses (typical capitalist ploy) and as you say, lock them in.

    I am over 50, but under 55, though it is not my age that is keeping my feet in Endnote, and only testing the waters of Zotero with my toes for now.

    All the best, and I think it is great project.
  • yes, series abbreviation and editors are a bit of a problem still - so I guess they would require manual editing or some fidgeting with the data and style - maybe someone who uses these would know better.

    Editors should import as such, though - if you check the RIS output, they should be A2 - if they are, Zotero should import them as editors. If they aren´t the problem is the export filter (though I thought that generally worked correctly from Endnote).

    My comment about age was solely about the cost benefit analysis of switching software: There are always going to be switching costs if you transfer your data from one system to another (fixing imports, learning new software etc.) - whether it is worth doing depends on how much data you already have and how much longer you´ll work with it - both tend to depend on a researcher´s age.
  • I haven't read through the long back-and-forth, but would just say a) don't be so quick to jump to conclusions (yes Zotero has support for edited books, series editor, etc.*), and b) the nice thing about Zotero is that if there is a problem with some detail, we can typically document it here and get it taken care of sooner or later

    So if you want to helpful here, please do two things:

    1. Take a close look at the edited book item template and see what it is you need but can't find. Series editors and other contributors are supported; you just need to select the pop-up that is by default listed as "Author." In other words, confirm with some facts, rather than with assumptions.

    2. If there are some/all of these data that do get exported to RIS but do not show up in Zotero on import (like, I don't know, series editors), please tell us what they are so we can fix them.

    For example, you say:
    I looked at the link for edited book, so I guess one simply changes the author field to and editor field from the drop down menu. As it stands I would have to change all the edited book files in my library.
    So are you telling us that the series editors in this case are correctly exported by RefMan (using the "A3" tag), and that they are not correctly imported by Zotero (they show up as "Author" instead)? If that's the case, then that's a bug we need to log and get fixed (and while I can't promise anything, I have to believe it's a pretty easy fix).

    * Zotero is designed by and for scholars; the founders are historians.
  • If you are seeing systematically incorrect mappings from Endnote fields to Zotero fields, it should be possible to address those in the Endnote export filter or in the Zotero import translator. If your library is large enough, tweaking one or both may be much faster than any manual fixes.

    Really, if Endnote exports the full extent of your bibliographic data in a meaningful way, there ought to be a way to get in into Zotero intact. We'll try to find that way.
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