Open Office -- Citation format bug

ChuckD
This doesn't seem like the bug forum, but I can't find it. And the "Report a bug" feature, while awesome, won't capture the actual mistake I'm having in the Zotero plugin for open office.

The bug is weird, very reproducible, and not a major concern. Regardless, thought I'd report it. If a document cites two sources with overlapping sets of authors (e.g., "Smith & Jones 2003" and "Smith, Jones & White 2004"), but the authors names are listed in the Zotero database differently (e.g., "'Smith, John A', 'Jones, Robert B'"; and "'Smith, J A', 'Jones, R B', 'White, X Y'") then the citations will not be listed correctly. The plugin seems to recognize that the authors are somehow the same, even though they are listed differently -- that's cool. But, then it displays the citations incorrectly. For example, it will list their first names (or initials) in a bibliography format -- _all_ of those formats in fact -- that does not call for first names (or initials). Fixing the Zotero database so that the author names are exactly the same fixes the problem.

If you can't reconstruct the error, and you care about this trivial and clearly non-essential bug, ask me and I'll send you docs and exact instructions to reproduce.

-Chuck
  • ChuckD
    should've added: Beta 2.0b6.3
  • fbennett
    edited July 23, 2009
    Chuck,

    Thanks for this extremely detailed report. I'm helping to build a new CSL processor for Zotero, and little glitches in citation formatting are always of interest. Just one question, so that I can confirm for myself exactly what's happening. You've indicated that this happens with all styles, but could you give one style that you've confirmed it with?

    (I ask because this looks like normal disambiguation behavior. Many styles that ordinarily do not use author first names or initials add them in order to distinguish between authors that have different first names. The rules are kind of arcane, and it can look buggy at first glance, even when it's doing the right thing.)

    EDIT: changed "last names" to "first names" in second paragraph.
  • ChuckD
    Yes! *blush*. It may be normal disambiguation behavior. It hadn't occurred to me that the first names of authors whose names are not listed in one citation could still affect the presentation style of authors whose names are listed in a second citation.

    For example, (J Smith 2003) kept appearing, even though I had no other citations which listed any author "Smith". After your post, I checked more closely, and realized that I did have other entries in which "Smith" (with a different first name or initial) was an author, he just was a 3rd or higher (or 4th or higher depending on the format) author. Thus, even though he didn't show up in the one citation, he affected the presentation of the other.

    For completeness sake, the formats I tested were: APA, APSA, ASA, Chicago Style (author-date), and Harvard. But, without looking up the disambiguation rules of all the formats, I presume that the behavior is correct, if as you put it, arcane :)
  • fbennett
    Interesting! Thanks again for this careful feedback. I'm not sure of the precise behaviour of current Zotero, but In the new processor (if I understand and recall my own code correctly), given names or initials will be added only to authors that physically print in the citation or the bibliography. This could lead to similar "phantom" name expansion among the citations, where the bibliography lists more authors by default than citations do.

    Lately it seems like every time I turn around I'm having to reopen and adjust something in the new disambiguation routines. But we're testing everything carefully as we go along, and when the new processor eventually goes live, there should be little chance of unexpected disappointment and unwelcome surprise.
  • smatter
    I was having a similar problem with ASA. My in-text citations for one article started showing author first names when I added a second citation by the same authors (which was not showing first names in the in-text citations). Editing the entries so that the names wer entered identically fixed it. So, I'm guessing it's normal disambiguation behaviour for ASA.

    As a ranty side note, there were three citations involved, two from one journal (in separate issues of the same volume) and one from another journal, which was the reason for the difference in author name data. Interestingly, the difference was in the info downloaded from the two articles in the same journal. One gave the full first names, the other used initials. So much for consistency.

    Anyways, thanks again to all the people working to make zotero even more awesome than it already is!
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