parenthetical citation with Turabian style

meerutwala
Hi, I want to use parenthetical citation with Turabian style. But Zotero brings up the citation only in end-note or footnote! How can I use parenthetical citation while using the Turabian style?
  • adamsmith
    you'd need a different style - does Chicago author-date not work for you? - it's very close.
    Is there an official Turabian author-date style guide? If so it's probably relatively easy to make the style - usually Elena (erazlogo) takes care of anything Chicago/Turabian related, she knows the style guidelines much better than anyone else.
  • erazlogo
    @meerutwala What are the differences between Chicago and Turabian author-date styles? If there are significant differences, I'll create a separate style.
  • meerutwala
    Thanks for the response.
    As far as I know, if I choose Chicago author-date style, and hit insert citation, Zotero let's me insert an in-text, parenthetical citation with author-date and page #. And if I insert a footnote, this style only provides author date, page # options in the footnote too. However, I've to use the Turabian style, and in that, I'm required to provide all details like author-date, place, publisher and page#. After selecting the Turabian style option in Zotero, it creates perfect footnotes with all publication data, but within the same style, when I try to insert an in-text parenthetical citation with just author-date, page#, Zotero doesn't do that.
    I hope I'm making my problem clear to you. Any help will be much appreciated.Thanks.
  • erazlogo
    If Chicago author-date lets you insert correct citations, why not just use it?
  • meerutwala
    It lets me insert only parenthetical citation (author-date), but not the footnote with full bibliographical information. You would realize that in a dissertation, one has to use a combination of both parenthetical (in-text) citation for immediate reference as well as footnotes with comments and further references. Now, in the Turabian style, footnoting requires full bibliographical info, beside citing in parenthesis the immediate parenthetical citations it seems, at least to me, impossible to do with Zotero. May be one has to keep switching the styles for different tasks, but that messes up the document. I hope someone will soon figure out a solution to this issue...
  • adamsmith
    no, I'm actually not aware of any style that uses parenthetical citations and footnotes with full bibliographical information.
    While that's not possible in Zotero, I believe it doesn't need to be, because you misunderstand Turabian style.
    There are two different styles (both in the Chicago Manual and in Turabian). One author-date (or parenthetical) style and one Note or Footnoted style. The former usese author-date, the latter requires full bibl. information in footnotes. They are distinct and you shouldn't/needn't mix them. If you cite something in a footnote in an author-date style you use the same author-date format as in the main text. That is true with 100% certainty for Chicago Manual, and only slightly less certain for Turabian.

    If you're convinced that I'm wrong about this, please link to any documentation or a sample document/paper to that effect and we can think about ways to address this.
  • meerutwala
    edited April 8, 2010
    Okay, Adamsmith, to put it simply, if parenthetical citation is an integral part of the Turabian style, why can't we use it by selecting the Turabian(dev) Style in Zotero? Try selecting the Turabian (dev) Style in your Zotero, and then try inserting a parenthetical citation in your word document and let me know how you could do it. When I use, it always gives me a footnote! Thanks.
  • erazlogo
    There are two Turabian styles--they are not meant to be used together in the same work:

    http://www.press.uchicago.edu/books/turabian/turabian_citationguide.html
    Kate L. Turabian’s Manual for Writers of Research Papers, Theses, and Dissertations presents two basic documentation systems, notes-bibliography style (or simply bibliography style) and parenthetical citations–reference list style (or reference list style). These styles are essentially the same as those presented in The Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition, with slight modifications for the needs of student writers.

    Bibliography style is used widely in literature, history, and the arts. This style presents bibliographic information in footnotes or endnotes and, usually, a bibliography.

    The more concise reference list style has long been used in the physical, natural, and social sciences. In this system, sources are briefly cited in parentheses in the text by author’s last name and date of publication. The parenthetical citations are amplified in a list of references, where full bibliographic information is provided.
  • meerutwala
    Thanks for this link and clarification. However, my basic question remains, in selecting the Turabian Style in Zotero, how do I insert a parenthetical citation? For example, in the above link of Turabian, this is an example of a parenthetical citation: (Cowlishaw and Dunbar 2000, 104–7). Please let me know how that can be done in Turabian Style of Zotero. Thanks.
  • adamsmith
    edited April 8, 2010
    You currently can't, because there is no Turabian author-date style for Zotero: just like you need to use a different style for Chicago author-date and for Chicago w. Footnotes in Zotero, you need two different styles for Turabian with footnotes and Turabian with author-date - and the latter doesn't exist yet. If you need it, please find out in what ways it differs from Chicago author-date and Elena has already been kind enough to volunteer her time to do the coding (if necessary).
  • erazlogo
    edited April 8, 2010
    Use Chicago author-date style.

    There is no difference between Chicago author-date and Turabian author-date styles.

    Edit: What Adam said. If you find differences between Chicago and Turabian author-date styles let me know and I'll create a new style, as I explained to you earlier on this forum.
  • meerutwala
    Thanks again to both of you. Here is my suggestion: When selecting Turabian in Zotero, it provides two options--1. "Footnote/endnote", and 2. "Field" unlike Chicago author-date. May be if you could tweak the code to provide the option of "Field" one may be able to use parenthetical citation instead of being forced to a footnote as it does now. I don't know if it makes sense. Thanks.
  • adamsmith
    edited April 8, 2010
    I think I understand what you're saying but it's not going to work that way.
    Really you need to understand that there are two entirely distinct styles labeled Turabian. Right now only one of them exists in Zotero, which seems to trip you up somewhat. Just imagine that "Chicago (Author-Date)" is called "Turabian (parenthetical)". If that makes things easier for you I can actually make you such a style.

    They require Zotero to do completely different things and it's only by convention that they have the same name. They might as well be called "Turabian" and "Kate" to distinguish them. Just like you can select between the style for the American Sociological Association and the Chicago Manual of Style, you can select between "Turabian" and "Kate" - so you already have the option you want! - just in a different place.

    The Footnote/Endnote option, on the other hand, doesn't change anything Zotero does except for whether notes are printed at the bottom of the page or at the end of the document.
    The Field vs. Bookmark option concerns something entirely different and has nothing to do with the citation style itself, but only with the internal, invisible formatting of the Word Document.

    edit - thanks Elena - I probably should have done that earlier.
  • erazlogo
    edited April 8, 2010
    In the interest of ending this circuitous discussion, I've added Turabian (Author-Date) Style--please install from the styles page and let me know if it works for you.

    Edit: Many thanks, Adam, for additional explanations--I figured it was easier to add the dependent style than to explain.
  • meerutwala
    Thanks.
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