This is a general issue with Word for Mac unfortunately. After restarting Zotero, when you cite in a new document for the first time with "automatically update citations" disabled, the initial cite will take a while, but subsequent ones should be relatively fast until you restart Zotero, certainly within seconds, not minutes, for that particular document.

You could submit a Debug ID from Zotero for an attempt to insert a citation after an initial insert, and we can take a look.

Otherwise, the standard suggestion is to split your document into multiple documents by chapter and work on them individually, and then recombine them in the end, or work on a Windows machine if possible.

I can see that the actual operation here took 3 minutes. You have nearly 1000 citations, so this isn't something unexpected. Based on this Debug ID however it doesn't look like you have automatic citation updates disabled. You should double-check in Zotero Document Preferences and make sure it's disabled, which should speed this up.

Otherwise, the recommendation to split the document chapter-wise is probably the best option to improve speed.

Automatic citation updates definitely disabled (see ss). Have just done it again with this double-checked - definitely off - it took 1m55 seconds to insert one citation. See D132745974.

Hmm, Zotero seems to act as if Automatically update citations is enabled here. We'll see if there's a bug in Zotero and whether we can fix it. In the meantime:

Given that academic dissertations often have over 1000 references, this is really poor

In our experience helping Zotero users very few actually write papers with over 1000 references, and all such documents are on the extreme end. Still, we try our best to support such documents as they are often those that benefit the most from a citation manager.

I already split the document chapter wise but at some point I have to combine them and carry on working. Are there any other suggestions you have apart from what you've already said? Is it a known Mac for Word issue? If so, does Google doc fare better with Mac?

The idea is that you should combine your chapters only before submission, and only then run a few slow Zotero operations. I understand, that this is not always entirely feasible, but we're unfortunately at technical limits of Mac for Word on this. We're working on Microsoft for a much faster Word integration, but we're currently stuck waiting for changes on their end.

LibreOffice and Word for Windows both are very fast and stable. Mac for Word becomes slow with many citations, and even more so when they are footnote citations. Google Docs becomes as the size of the document increases, where we don't recommend it for documents that are longer than 100 pages.

Thanks. It is a specific style written by a tutor atthe Uni that we are instructed to import and use within Zotero.

I was about to ask whether using something like MHRA (4th ed) would improve the reaction time, and then I thought I should just try it. I did. And it inserted it immediately. D334900982

So it seems that all along it has been the specific citation style that does not like Word for Mac (fellow students using Word for Windows had no issues). I am going to move to MHRA and see how I get on. Thanks for your help with this.

not sure how to link to a style. here is a ss.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/zotero.org/images/forums/u13832981/ml15paytvnykhkv9yr82.png

@damsandell I thought I had a breakthrough this week by changing the referencing style, but unfortunately not. Back to two minutes to insert one citation. I was wasting two hours per day just waiting for Zotero to enter referencing. And if I tried a refresh at the end of the day it would take 6-7 minutes. Like you said, too buggy and slow to be of any use whatsoever. I found out that it’s the way that MacOS operates with Zotero. It scans every single option, which Libre and Word for Windows does not do. I was told by helpdesk here that almost 1000 references is too many - but all of my course have that sort of number due to the nature of our course. But Mac for Word and lots of references with Zotero is appallingly bad.

@adamsandell I have been experimenting using the same dissertation that Zotero and word for Mac refused to co-operate with.

I downloaded Libreoffice which is one of the two systems that does not work in the same way as MacOS Word does. But I hated the look. So clunky and outdated even when I changed the view options.

Then I tried it with Google docs. It inserted the reference within seconds. No issues at all. I know the Zotero helpdesk did not mention it to me as a recommended option, it works on a 200 page dissertation with multiple images, tables and 1000 references already in place. So try experimenting with that and upload something and then embed Zotero and save as Google doc. This also has the advantage of never having to press “save” before every single Zotero insertion in case it makes Word crash again.

I also experimented with a different referencing software and did find some improvement with MHRA compared to the bespoke one that our Uni course suggested we use.

So worth some experimenting - but do a back up first!

@adamsandell Please create a new thread and describe your problem precisely. What you are describing isn't normal or expected Zotero behaviour. See Reporting Problems.

@NicolaJohnson We strongly advise against working on documents longer than 100 pages with Google Docs. Due to difficult to explain technical issues with Google Docs that are outside of our control, citing there may become extremely slow (much slower than on Mac for Word) at any time, and there will not be any way to speed it up again.

If citing is slow with MHRA in Word even with automatic citation updates disabled for all subequent cites, then it's a bug in Zotero and we will fix it if you send the document to support@zotero.org with a link to this thread. Otherwise, the recommendation is to either use LibreOffice, Word for Windows or split the document chapter-wise. We strongly don't recommend using Google Docs.

Hello, just following up on this. I’ve been experimenting this morning to see how my new thesis might look once everything is combined (around 100,000 words and 140 images).

To test it, I took my old dissertation and saved it as an unformatted .rtf file, which stripped out all the original formatting and images. I then added 100,000 words with basic formatting and inserted 140 images as compressed JPEGs (all reduced to under 500 KB each). After resaving the file as a .docx, the trial document came out at only 1.8 MB.

I tested adding a citation in MHRA style and it worked immediately. Given the problems I’ve had before, could you please check ID: D1760181257 and confirm there don’t appear to be any issues?

If everything looks fine, this may be the solution for handling long Word documents on a Mac: keep all images below 500 KB, insert them as JPEGs rather than PNGs, and the result is a document under 2 MB even with 100,000 words and citations. Hopefully this helps anyone else facing similar difficulties.

Thank you. Do you think that if the existing 900 references were linked, that Zotero would be much slower to add number 901? i.e., is it now working very fast because there are no other references there already - but once I have 900 real linked references in there, it will be a lot slower again? I need to find a solution now before I get too much further my writing.

I see. With a new document it works fine. But that's not typical with a dissertation, so I have created some test documents of 50k words with 900 references (so about half what my final doc will be).

I use WordforMac.

Problem:

Word>Zotero>Document Preferences>Cite : Zotero keeps forgetting the cite style. Every single time I open a new Word for Mac document I have to go to 'document preferences' and set it to MHRA. It keeps defaulting to one I used last year.

Then if I want to check document preferences again, it simply won't show me. It will just open the whole of Zotero in whatever page I was last using.

If I try to add a citation, it will not. Again it just takes me to the whole pf Zotero. If I click on anything it will show me the whole PDF.

I have tried:
1) closing Word and Zotero and re-opening.
2) Zotero>Settings>Cite>WP>re-install.

No change. ID: D1434258448

Am spending a ridiculous amount of time trying to get this working now. I am not technical so please do not just tell me to follow instructions on a link. I need practical step by step help.

I do not want to switch to LibreOffice again. Tried it: hideous.
I cannot swap to Windows.
I just want to get Zotero working with WordforMac in the way it should

I have just emailed you with the document: everything works fine with a brand new document but not with anything copied from last year's dissertation.

You have previously requested the document so you can do bug analysis so have sent it to you to do just that.

@NicolaJohnson I've looked at the document that you've sent us, and aside from it using a custom citation style, once I switched to MHRA with endnotes and automatic updates disabled, and attempted to insert citations, everything worked as described.

Specifically:
1. After restarting Zotero, the first citation insert on my M2 Macbook Air took over 200s, or about 3.5 minutes.
2. Subsequent citation inserts are nearly instantaneous.

Can you confirm that you DO NOT see this behaviour either with Zotero 7.0.30 or Zotero Beta?

If you do not. Restart Zotero, insert a single citation into your document, and make sure it's finished inserting (progress bar is no longer open as one of Zotero windows), then produce a Debug ID for attempting to insert a second citation.

I do NOT see this behaviour with 7.0.30. I used the same doc that I sent to you. Once I use document preferences to swap to MHRA, it does not do anything else: trying to insert a reference just takes me to main Zotero window, but does not allow insertion of anything.

Whenever you open document preferences, Zotero gets information about all fields in the document. When you select MHRA, Zotero is still waiting for Microsoft Word to return a list of fields, and until that operation is finished, another Word operation cannot be started. This is why attempts to press any other buttons just take you back to Zotero interface. If you use Zotero Beta, you will see a progress bar while this update is happening.

I then followed your instructions: "Restart Zotero, insert a single citation into your document, and make sure it's finished inserting (progress bar is no longer open as one of Zotero windows), then produce a Debug ID for attempting to insert a second citation." It took 1m 20 secs; the Debug ID is D1477396434

The debug log doesn't look right and is still taking too long, and retrieving all fields from the document, which it should not do. Could you create a screen recording where you perform the request above, and create another Debug ID while doing so?

So it did work - but it seems I have to go in once and change the referencing style in doc.preferences and then quit and go back in again. That does not seem right?

If you save the Word document after changing its document preferences, you should not be prompted with the Document Preferences dialog again. You would only see it if you close the document without saving it and then reopen it.

I had 'automatically update citations' disabled. A refresh took almost 8 minutes. I entered one more reference and did one more refresh; the second refresh took 3 minutes , for which I have a Debug ID: D1612863513

This Debug ID contains the second half of Zotero updating your document after changing document preferences, and doesn't correspond to what you said.

Either way you should not be running a refresh, or going into document preferences after every citation insertion. The whole purpose of having automatic citation updates disabled is that it makes citation insertion and editing fast. The rest of the operations are still slow, but the most common operation that you will need - citation editing, is fast. You should only run the slow operations when you need to, e.g. refresh, which makes sure that all the citations inserted with automatic citation updates disabled look correctly, e.g. with ibid for repeat citations.