How to properly use Zotero with Cloud storage?

I've read a lot about this particular issue, and still dont understand how to make my pdfs accessible across 2 computers (i.e. 2 zotero instances) without syncing all of my pdfs to zotero's web library (i use the free 300 MB, which isnt enough to hold all of my storage sans upgrading).

This is my ultimate goal -- to be able to read all of my pdfs (i.e. have them accessible & readable) no matter which computer i am using.

i have followed this guide (https://libguides.libraries.wsu.edu/c.php?g=768677&p=5514205)such that "Edit > Preferences > Advanced > Files and Folders > Linked Attachment Base Directory > Base Directory:" links to my dropbox folder which contains all of my documents.

After doing this on both instances of zotero, i am unable to access my pdfs on my mobile computer (the instance created 2nd, after following the same procedure on my computer where all files are also stored locally).

After reading this:
https://www.zotero.org/support/kb/data_directory_in_cloud_storage_folder
and other resources, it seems as though i have done something incorrectly, and have put myself at risk of database corruption.

My process is typically to download an article > name it using my own system of nomenclature > move it to my dropbox folder that i have made as my linked attachment base directory > then place it in my zotero library.

Can someone explain to me how a "relational link" differs from my current process, and offer advice on how to change what i've been doing to achieve my above goal?
  • edited November 25, 2023
    I can see how those WSU library instructions might work. However their current instructions are somewhat ambiguous, unnecessarily tedious, and potentially wrong.

    At the top of the WSU library page you linked it correctly says "this is all about saving attachment files to cloud storage and establishing links to your Zotero record. Do NOT store your entire Zotero directory on cloud storage".

    But this instruction is somewhat ambiguous and potentially wrong:
    "2. In Zotero, go to Zotero Preferences -> Advanced -> Files and Folders. Here you will change your Zotero file storage Base Directory by using the Choose… option to go to the folder you just set up."
    The description "file storage Base Directory" is incomplete and could lead people to use the wrong Choose option - there are two Choose buttons on that dialog.

    If you set Data Directory Location on that dialog to your cloud folder, then that is dangerous (as the Zotero link you posted says).

    Also, unlike the tedious process for every PDF file described by WSU, a linked PDF file setup is usually achieved with the Zotfile plugin. You set Tools\Zotfile Preferences \Custom Location to your cloud folder. PDF files are then automatically downloaded and placed in that folder by Zotero/Zotfile.
    https://www.zotero.org/support/attaching_files#adding_files_via_the_browser
    (Zotfile is not being updated for Zotero 7, however there is one and potentially two plugins that should take its place.
    https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/104858/on-zotfile-development-and-zotero-7 )

    Finally, the WSU process uses the Linked Attachment Base Directory setting in a somewhat uncommon way - combined with using right-click Add Attachment for every single PDF file you download (!).

    The Linked Attachment Base Directory setting only sets where Zotero *looks* for linked attachments. It has no effect on where they are stored. If using Zotfile, it is usually only really necessary if you have linked files at a different location on each computer (eg F:\Dropbox\ZoteroAttachments on one PC and G:\Dropbox\ZoteroAttachments on another).
    https://www.zotero.org/support/preferences/advanced#files_and_folders
  • @tim820 I appreciate your input. i thought the exact same thing about this, very tedious and not amenable to batch handling. --> "Finally, the WSU process uses the Linked Attachment Base Directory setting in a somewhat uncommon way - combined with using right-click Add Attachment for every single PDF file you download (!)."

    This is particularly discouraging for my case, because my zotero library is now over 1000 docs, thus highly intractable to switch all of them to linked via individual right-click.

    A quick check of the database integrity within the advanced preferences shows there are currently no errors. And based on your distinction above, it sounds like changing the Linked Attachment Base Directory to the Dropbox folder rather than the Data Directory Location is the least risky move.

    To offer more information -- the pdf emblem on my mobile computer's zotero instance is grayed out (the problem im trying to solve) even though both instances use the "...username\Dropbox\Papers" dir as the Linked Attachment Base Directory

    when i try to open one of these pdfs, it shows that zotero is still looking in its default location: "The attached file could not be found at the following path: user\Zotero\storage\PHFWPI9E\Tang et al. - 2023 - Expectation violations enhance neuronal encoding.pdf It may have been moved or deleted outside of Zotero, or, if the file was added on another computer, it may not yet have been synced to or from zotero.org."

    So what do you intuit is the best solution here to allow my pdfs openable across both computers? Does this imply that i need to just copy my entire "user\Zotero\storage" dir from my desktop over to my mobile computer, and periodically overwrite it across both machines like this until the end of time? There has to be a better way that doesnt involve redundantly storing pdfs on both computers and manually updating them...
  • @connor_gray, I was able to share attachments across three computers during my work life--one at the university, two at my home--and I stayed under the 300MB storage limit for seventeen years with about 8,000 items. The attachments only needed to exist once on my Dropbox.

    Only a few weeks ago did I go for paid storage because the v.7 ability to edit and annotate snapshots is just too sweet to miss.

    The issue with corrupting your data is not about externally linked attachments, as I understand it. It's about the Zotero database. You don't want it syncing one change while you're making another. So always store your Zotero database on each computer and not in the cloud. Your attachments will need to be in the cloud for the two-computer sync to work.

    The key to handling this on two computers gets down to the Linked Attachment Base Directory, as you've already discovered. This directory address may be different on each of your computers. Let's say your address at work is

    D:\Users\YourName\Dropbox\Zotero Attachments

    At home, your address is

    C:\Users\YourMiddleName\Dropbox\Zotero Attachments

    What matters is what you do inside of these two directories. Everything that is mapped inside "Zotero Attachments," whether at home or at work, needs to have exactly the same subdirectory structure.

    In neither case are you storing attachments in Zotero. You're storing them in the same Dropbox, accessible at home and work. What you're storing in Zotero is the address to the attachments.

    If you're already in version 7, I'm not sure if the ability to remap things you've got incorrectly addressed is available. It was in Zutilo for version 6. If you're still in v. 6, you can fix any broken links (and it can be done in a batch) and then you'll be in good shape before going to version 7. I do have hope, though, that the former Zutilo capability to remap batches of attachment links is being prepared for version 7, also, because it's a lifesaver in situations like this.

    I hope I didn't make it muddier by chiming in. Let me know if I can help.

  • @connor_gray your Zotero *data* is safe and risk-free ... as long you did *not* set the Data Directory Location to Dropbox (the WSU instructions you used are not 100% clear enough to be sure that most people will avoid that). And of course if you have it backed up well.
    https://www.zotero.org/support/zotero_data#backing_up_your_zotero_data

    Also, to be clear, online syncing of all that *data* is free. The online storage quota limit only applies to file attachments you sync online on Zotero servers (*file* syncing).

    So the question is where are your PDFs now, how to get them (now and in the future) to Dropbox, and have them accessible across computers ? The example you gave for PHFWPI9E shows that that particular PDF is in *local* Zotero storage, ie it is not a linked file (in Dropbox). The PDF icon for that particular file in the main window will likely not show a chain-link overlay that signifies a linked file.

    The solution that most people (and there are many, many of them) use for linked file setups is the Zotfile plugin (not the way WSU describes). As pointed out above, Zotfile is not available in Zotero v7 (currently still in beta, so most people should still be in Zotero v6). Several plugins will likely provide the same functionality in v7 for those people (but that is still evolving). In any case, it is always possible to switch back to local Zotero storage of PDFs if you want to; for example if you can afford paid Zotero storage in the future, or if you want to use features that linked files don't work for - the mobile app or Groups. If your PDF needs are over 300mb and you want to use those features, your only real option is paid storage.

    Zotfile handles automatic storage of your PDFs to the Custom Location specified in Zotfile Preferences (eg Dropbox) as *linked* files. Their exact location is stored in the Zotero database, so it knows where to find them.

    The WSU instructions you used provide no means to automatically manage the storing process - they require you to manually (right-click) attach each PDF you download. That happens automatically with Zotfile. For example when the Zotero web connector downloads a PDF from a journal web site you have access rights for, Zotfile automatically sends it to the Custom Location as a linked PDF.

    For that Zotfile setup, you would have Zotero (free) data syncing turned on, and Zotero (quota-limited) file syncing turned off, in Zotero preferences. As long as data syncing is turned on with any Zotero setup (Zotfile or no Zotfile), you would never have to do what you described in your last para - your data would always be synced (for free) across computers.

    When you have set up Zotero on another computer to use the same (free) account, all your *data* will sync to that computer, as will future data changes (both ways). But you are responsible for setting things up so that the *linked PDFs* are in the Zotfile Custom Location on that computer, and synced (eg by Dropbox). If the Custom Locations are different on the two computers, set Zotero's Linked Attachment Base Directory, so it then knows where to look for them.
  • Sorry, I didn't have time to read through all replies carefully, but the reason for the current disconnected files is almost certainly here:
    My process is typically to download an article > name it using my own system of nomenclature > move it to my dropbox folder that i have made as my linked attachment base directory > then place it in my zotero library.
    If you generically "place" a file into Zotero (e.g. using drag and drop) you're creating a copy of the file as a stored Zotero attachment. If you want to link to an existing file you need to either use "Attach link to file" or drag&drop while holding a modifier key.
    The other advice here is generally sound - you shouldn't do this manually.

    I know Tim disagrees with this, but I more generally advise people to really think about whether linked files are the right solution for them. They are more error prone (see above) and offer more limited functionality (no mobile app support, no group support) so imo everyone who needs file sync and can somewhat reasonably afford Zotero file storage is better off spending the 2-10$/month
  • edited November 26, 2023
    I don't disagree that paid local storage works very well for many people who can afford it. ;) I just think that many other people need to use the available alternatives like linked files - academics in places where the online Zotero storage cost is problematic, retired people, students, etc. WebDAV is another option, which seemingly gets more official support from devs than linked files. Although if posts here are any indication, it runs into problems more often than Zotfile setups do.

    My only real concerns with a Zotfile-based approach include the mentioned remaining uncertainty around which of the current new plugin candidates will best provide that functionality in the future in Zotero 7 (along with Zutilo, there would seem to be too many people that rely on those plugins for solutions not to happen before Zotero 7). And also that the Zotfile documentation is out of date (still referring to annotation extraction). Although all the important bits are still as described IIRC. Hopefully in the future instead of long posts like the above we can just go back to 'read the plugin instructions'. Finally there is the clearly stated inability of linked files to work with Groups, nor iOS (other than with a less efficient external PDF viewer workaround; or Zotfile's send-to-tablet, that looks unlikely to remain an option in v7).

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