double checking how to move file storage instructions

snakenuts
Hi,

So I just want to double check how to move my attachments (stored files on a local drive) to a cloud-based drive so that I can access the files from two macs (and an iPad).

Which way would be the best way to change the storage directory from a local HDD to a cloud-based folder?

I've copied the "storage" folder into my Google Drive folder, but I haven't changed any settings yet. Now what should I do? Should I change the base directory in Juris (Zotero) to the new location, or should i use Zotfile to rename and relocate all my attachments into a new folder?

Can I access the files in the new storage folder location from any computer as long as the directory is pointed towards the Google Drive folder? Or do the pdfs/files need to be "linked attachments"?
Is it possible batch change all of my locally stored files into "linked attachments"? And if so, how do I do that?



  • dstillman
    No, you can't just move your 'storage' fodler — that'll just break all your attachments.

    The best way to do this is to keep the files as stored files and use Zotero file syncing, which works with the new Zotero iOS app.
  • snakenuts
    Zotero has instructions on moving a folder to a stored files directory folder to a new computer. I assumed if I move the folder to a cloud based folder I could access the files from there?

    I'm not sure how much syncing really helps for opening an attachment on two or more devices.
    If the file is stored on my local desktop, I cannot open the pdf and annotate it on another desktop.

    Zotero instructions say to set the linked attachment base directory on all computers (which you wish to use Zotero) to the same folder (cloud-based) so they can have access to the file.

    But I am a little confused as to how do this, or how to proceed.

    I have thousands of files in my library, most of which have pdf attachments stored as local files.
    But I am unable to move these to an online cloud-based folder for access (when I mean access I mean being able to annotate the pdf attachment. I understand I can add notes and edit the file's information in the zotero library).

    How can I access these older attachments from two or more computers if I change the linked attachment base directory path? Won't the older files be lost?
  • dstillman
    https://www.zotero.org/support/sync
  • snakenuts
    I know the library is syncable across devices, but once again, attachment files cannot be opened and edited on one computer if they are stored locally on another. An error message appears saying that Zotero cannot locate the file.

    Then only things that sync across devices are the library data for files. The syncing option helps when changing library data. But it doesn't help when trying to annotate pdfs from numerous work stations.

    So, my issue problem is, how can I turn those locally stored files into linked attachments so I can access the pdf attachment (not the library item in Zotero) from multiple computers?
  • dstillman
    edited May 1, 2022
    If you're going to post here, you should assume we know what we're talking about and take the time to read the documentation we link to. There's a large "File Syncing" heading on the page I linked to. Zotero syncs files as well as library data — it's a core feature of the software.

    If files aren't syncing for you, we can troubleshoot that. See Files Not Syncing and provide the requested information.

    You've already synced almost 300 MB of files, so you might just be hitting your file storage quota, in which case you'd be receiving a sync error on every sync explaining the problem. You can add a storage subscription to sync more files.

    Linked files are an advanced configuration that we don't recommend for most users, and they also don't work with the iOS app. The information necessary to use them is available from the above links, but if you can't figure it out, or if you want to use the iOS app, or if you generally want a seamless experience, you should just use Zotero syncing, which is as simple as entering your username and password on all devices.
  • dstillman
    edited May 1, 2022
    (And please don't create multiple threads for the same issue — it just makes it harder for us to help you. Your other post has been deleted.)
  • snakenuts
    You're not really helping at all. You posted a link in a second reply without any comment like you're condescending me.
    Perhaps people need help because the issues are complicated and not all the scenarios that people face meet the limited instructions online.

    And you shouldn't have deleted the other post because it is a completely different question to the one posed here.

    I'm not a fool when it comes to syncing, mate. The issue is: if I store a file attached to an item in Zotero locally on a desktop computer, I'm not going to be able to open that file/pdf etc on another computer and make annotations to it (the pdf, not the item in the library) unless it was added to Zotero library as a linked attachment.

    So, I'm going back to my original question - how can I turn or move those locally stored files on a desktop into a central storage location to which I can access from multiple computers?

    If you want to post the link again, go ahead, but I'll tell you now that I'm not using Zotero storage. I want to move the files I have into a new cloud-based directory.

    The Zotfile plugin is supposed to help with managing renaming and moving files, but I cannot find the instructions on how to move the linked files - the zotfile page only gives instructions on how to rename.

    Quoting the zotfile home page: "(Batch) Rename and Move Attachments based on Zotero Metadata
    The user can also select any number of Zotero items and automatically rename and move all attachments of these items according to the user defined rules using metadata of the respective zotero item (batch processing)."

    So how do I do that?

    Once again, the problem I had in the other post relates to a separate issue to this. I.e, why does Zotero add some bunch of numbers in the directory path name when I choose Google Drive as the Linked Attachment Base Directory?

    This is the path name that appears in the file directory after I select the Google Drive with the storage I copied from the desktop:

    /Volumes/GoogleDrive-100699296111414771282/My Drive/Zotero File Storage/storage

  • adamsmith
    So you have linked files and want to consolidate them in one place? (Your use of terminology is quite confusing, so I hope I understood this correctly).

    Convert them to stored files using Zotero's built in functionality, then use Zotfile to move them to a target folder and link.

    For GDrive, are you sure those numbers aren't there when you look at the file properties?
  • dstillman
    edited May 1, 2022
    I'm not a fool when it comes to syncing, mate. The issue is: if I store a file attached to an item in Zotero locally on a desktop computer, I'm not going to be able to open that file/pdf etc on another computer and make annotations to it (the pdf, not the item in the library) unless it was added to Zotero library as a linked attachment.
    @snakenuts: Do you understand that this sounds like you believe that Zotero doesn't support syncing of stored files and the only way to get files between computers is to use linked files and sync them with some other service? And that if you keep saying this, it's reasonable for people to try to help you by saying that, yes, Zotero syncs files when you add them the default way and use Zotero syncing?

    If you fully understand that Zotero file syncing exists and you just don't want to use it, that's fine, but you need to actually say that, or else we're going to recommend it, because it just works.
    why does Zotero add some bunch of numbers in the directory path name when I choose Google Drive as the Linked Attachment Base Directory?
    Zotero didn't add those. That's just the mount point on your Mac.

    And as I said in my first response, you can't just drag 'storage' to another location and expect anything to work. 'storage' is for stored files — the ones that Zotero manages and syncs itself. You shouldn't touch that folder, and if you moved it you should move it back.

    Again, using a linked-file workflow is an advanced configuration relying on a third-party plugin and not something we recommend. It seems like you have some significant misunderstandings about how this all works, so I just wouldn't recommend going this route. Someone else might be willing to walk you through the steps, and there are lots of tutorials online, but you shouldn't expect Zotero developers to help you with it.
  • snakenuts
    edited May 2, 2022
    @adamsmith

    According to Zotero's pages:
    Stored Files: the file placed in the default Zotero storage directory
    Linked Files: Zotero only stores a link to the location of the original file on your computer.

    Most (almost 100%) of my library items are stored files in Zotero default storage directory on a desktop Mac HDD.
    I want to do the opposite of what you said. I would like to convert those stored files to Linked Files in Google Drive so I can both files and Zotero library data across multiple computers.

    I thought if I copy the storage folder (from desktop Mac) into GDrive, then change the Linked Attachment Base Directory from the new Macbook to the GDrive (following the instructions for moving storage to a new computer), I could begin working from the Macbook.

    For your reply, I have two responses.
    1. How? I don't know how to do what you suggested with Zotfile. Where are the instructions for doing that, and, can Zotfile do this for ALL attachments at once (batch), or do they have to be done one by one?

    2. As for those numbers in the path directory - they are from Zotero's Base Directory field on the Preference Screen on my Macbook. Those numbers appear as soon as I select the folder for the new Linked Attachment Base Directory (I click choose folder, click the GDrive icon, then click open. And that's what appears).
    But I have not yet added any items to my library from my Macbook yet because of all these troubles I am having, so I cannot see if those numbers are in any file property because there are no Linked Files in GDrive yet.



    So, I guess a follow on question regarding future syncing issues would be:
    a) If I am unable to convert the 3gb+ stored files (on a desktop) into Linked attachments (in GDrive) how can I access the attachment (ie open and read it) from other computers? and
    b) If I am able to change the Linked Attachment Base Directory to GDrive on all of my terminals, will the future adding of linked files affect previously added stored or linked file attachments in the past (given that I have not added linked files from any other folder/path directory?

    What options do I have?

    @dstillman
    Thank you for your suggestions.

    Yes, I was aware of that. But my question was from the assumption of working with cloud-based services instead. So I can see where my assumptions have backfired on my reasoning.
    So,
    - If I buy a storage plan for Zotero (I actually use Juris) will it automatically sync the already added stored files, or will I need to do anything to sync them?

    - I have about 3gb of files, of would like to cut down a lot of files. Is there a way for Zotero to display the library items by size of attachments so I can cull them?
    I assume that if I only have 2gb on Zotero storage, I can still use Linked Attachment for items that would take me over the storage limit.
    - Regarding your comment on the numbers being an issue with the Mac's mount point - do you know how to fix this, or make sure that Zotero is directed accurately to the GDrive folder?
  • adamsmith
    edited May 2, 2022
    Yeah, so moving around your storage folder won't work at all - first thing to check would be that you've successfully recovered from that, i.e. that a sample of files still open on the local machine.

    To use Zotfile to move files:
    - select all
    - right click --> Management Attachments --> Rename and Move

    For the questions
    a) if move & link doesn't work for you (though it should), using either Zotero storage or WebDAV would be an easier way to sync files across devices that requires much less set-up, less of an understanding of Zotero's interna, and overall just works more smoothly, so I would encourage you to reconsider that -- free WebDAV options are getting rarer, but I think you can still find them up to 5GB

    b) I don't quite understand the question, but adding a link to a file doesn't affect any other file link, no.
  • snakenuts
    @adamsmith

    Thank you for the tips.
    As for a) after right-clicking > Rename and Move, where are the files moved to? To what directory is Zotfile moving those files? I just tested it on one, and all it did was rename the file, iI don't think it moved it anywhere.

    B) I possibly added files as Linked Attachments from another cloud service many many years ago, on a different computer, so I assumed that if I changed the Linked File bas directory to a new GDrive on my Macbook that might break the link to the linked files added to my account from another location.

    I think the best solution is to just use Zotero storage.
  • dstillman
    If I buy a storage plan for Zotero (I actually use Juris) will it automatically sync the already added stored files, or will I need to do anything to sync them?
    Yes, any stored files that exist locally on each computer will be uploaded and synced to the other computers. Again, if you've moved the 'storage' folder, you'll want to move that back into the Zotero data directory, or else all stored attachments that weren't previously uploaded will be missing.
    Is there a way for Zotero to display the library items by size of attachments so I can cull them?
    We have a feature for that coming soon, but you can just do a search for PDFs within your Zotero data directory in Finder and sort by file size. You can then either search for the file in Zotero and delete the attachment or paste the eight-character folder name into the Zotero search bar in All Fields & Tags mode. You'll need to empty the trash after deleting any attachments.
    Regarding your comment on the numbers being an issue with the Mac's mount point - do you know how to fix this, or make sure that Zotero is directed accurately to the GDrive folder?
    There's nothing to fix. Zotero is pointing to the folder you selected. The path you're seeing is just the internal macOS path to the folder.
  • snakenuts
    @dstillman OK, thank you.

    And, I know it's not your concern, but I never actually moved the storage folder from my desktop yet, I just copied and pasted it into GDrive and began trying to work from my macbook using the GDrive path directory. I left the storage folder on my desktop in case anything went wrong.

    I do understand where I have misunderstood some of these issues, so thank you for helping me work through it all. I should have just used Zotero storage from the start.

    Another question, are you a developer for Zotero?
    If so, my question is on a separate matter - is it possible for Zotero to add different language fields for library item metadata like Juris-M? I work with Japanese materials and only use Juris-M because it allows me to have different scripts for the title, author etc.
    It would be great if Zotero had this feature as well, seeing as though the Juris developer has stopped updating the program.
  • dstillman
    is it possible for Zotero to add different language fields for library item metadata like Juris-M?
    Some discussion of that here.
  • snakenuts
    Thank you. Interesting read!
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