Zotero and office xml

arinbasu
Jabref has this nice export format 'office xml', that plays well with Word's native reference management. It'd be nice to have something similar with Zotero as well. I tried Endnote xml, it does not work. Word's/Microsoft's own instructions to compile the xml is possible but quite a time consuming process.

Is anyone working on it/worked on it?
  • LiborA
    Why do you need to export data from Zotero to office xml?
  • arinbasu
    A few reasons.
    First, this will make it possible to use Zotero and Word without installing the Zotero add-on for Word and make it easier to use the native Word referencing for productive use.
    Second, it _may_ make it possible to use Zotero with Word Online and may solve the issue that at the moment you cannot use Zotero with Word Online
    Third, it will allow additional flexibility to Zotero (it is already a very flexible and useful tool), and will make it even better tool to use with Office.
  • adamsmith
    Yeah, this is an open ticket for the format and I'm interested in working on it (though no guarantee on when), but FWIW none of those reasons really apply. Word's referencing feature is laughably limited and so won't help you much for 1 and 2 and the format itself is quite limited, so it adds relatively little in terms of flexibility compared to richer existing export/import formats like Endnote XML and BibLaTeX.

    The main reason I want this in Zotero is for the poor souls who started out with Word to get their data out quickly and if we're going through the trouble, we might as well have it work as both export and import.
  • arinbasu
    "The main reason I want this in Zotero is for the poor souls who started out with Word to get their data out quickly and if we're going through the trouble"

    @adamsmith, I think whether Word's own referencing feature is inadequate is non-sequitur here. Many of us often forget that be that as it may, Word has a larger user base among academics, and many journals make authors use Word as their submission. Besides, apps that play well with word are also often non-free tools, but that aside, there is a case to be kinder to the Word users and show them that Zotero can be used to play well with word in ways more than one: EVEN IF one does not HAVE to install the add-on, Zotero is usable. I think tools that allow office xml as output are heading in the right direction to be usable to Word users.
  • adamsmith
    Sorry, but this is just an odd statement
    , I think whether Word's own referencing feature is inadequate is non-sequitur here. Many of us often forget that be that as it may, Word has a larger user base among academics, and many journals make authors use Word as their submission.
    We're obviously not forgetting that, which is why the Word add-on is receiving a ton of attention in support, development, and maintain. And since you mention journal submission, if you count honestly, how many journals provide a citation style in Word's referencing format? I would be surprised if you can find even 10. In the almost 15 years supporting citation styles, I have literally never seen this.
    Look, as I said, I'm interested in supporting this, but I see absolutely no evidence that the format is at all widely used (including a paltry number of requests to support it here -- and those mostly for import), nor do we see any indication of increasing use of it. Afaik, Microsoft hasn't made any changes to it since Word 2007 (!!!).
  • arinbasu
    > And since you mention journal submission, if you count honestly, how many journals provide a citation style in Word's referencing format? I would be surprised if you can find even 10. In the almost 15 years supporting citation styles, I have literally never seen this

    @adamsmith , I see your point, and neither have I. Looks like I may not have myself clear enough.

    What _does_ happen, is that, once you populate the database that Word asks in their "References" tab, then the user can output whatever format the journal asks them to (i.e. Vancouver/APA/so on).

    Now, of course, we can argue why bother with an office XML, if we can use a Zotero plug-in, I am OK with it.

    Unless it's not too much of an issue, one _can_ think of edge cases where people may still want to have more flexibility in using features of Word with Zotero. I must admit that I do not use Word that often to stake a claim, but my point was more from the perspective of a Zotero user who might look for another way to interact with Word.
  • dstillman
    edited October 27, 2021
    We provide a vastly better way to generate citations in Word, with support for over 10,000 actively maintained styles. Why would we waste time supporting Word's much more limited built-in referencing tool?

    As adamsmith said, this might happen as a side effect of adding import support, but otherwise there's absolutely no reason we'd spend time on this.
  • bwiernik
    I’ll also note that Word’s built-in citation styles (eg, APA) contain many errors and produce inaccurate references.
  • MsH_BCC_BU
    There are cases where files need to be shared and the other people don't have Zotero.
  • adamsmith
    There may be, bit you are honestly better of just having the person with Zotero handle the references. Word's referencing tool really isn't a serious academic tool, which is why virtually no academic is using it. (Beyond that, see above: we'll likely do this anyway)
  • dstillman
    @MsH_BCC_BU: Also, to be clear, Zotero exports to basically every standard bibliographic exchange format in existence, resulting in compatibility with hundreds of other tools. That fact that we don't support a proprietary format used by a seemingly abandoned part of Word that produces inaccurate, error-ridden references isn't stopping you from sharing data with people who don't use Zotero.
  • mtmelissa
    Hello, I understand that Word's biblographic tool is really bad. However, I can't install anything on my work computer and so I would love to be able to import my zotero references into word directly.

    I have done a lot of research and I don't see any solutions other than exporting to the RIS format then importing into Mendelei and re-exporting to the Word XML format. But unfortunately in the end I lost 90% of my references. Can you help me? Thank you very much.
  • adamsmith
    I'd use zbib.org (which runs in any browser) before using Words reference system. Beyond that, taking a detour (I'd suggest JabRef rather than Mendeley) is likely your best bet
  • mtmelissa
    @adamsmith thank you for your answer. Why do you advise JabRef ? Mendeley seems to have a good converter to word xml, I have never used JabRef
  • mtmelissa
    Regarding zbib : You recommend that I use this site to generate my bibliography and then copy and paste it into my word document? Which means I won't be using Word's built-in reference tool and will have to do the citations manually?
    Thank you in advance
  • dstillman
    You can copy citations as well from ZoteroBib.
  • emilianoeheyns
    As to why Jabref: I would guess because it doesn't do this.
  • bwiernik
    Mendeley has also had many incidents over the years of deleting users data without notice, not supporting the current version of macOS for months, and not fixing longstanding bugs
  • adamsmith
    I was suggesting JabRef because you said you were losing 90% of references going through Mendeley, but yes, also what Emiliano and bwiernik say
  • dumpsterismology
    I am in the same situation as mtmelissa re: use of a workplace machine. Having a way to export from my Zotero web library to Word's built-in reference management XML format would be a lifesaver.
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