Need full citations for each new chapter

I'm using endnotes with Word 2010 and when I add a reference in chapter 2 to a book I already cited in chapter 1, I need it to give me a full citation. Instead I'm getting a second reference style: author last name, short title, page number.
How can I change this?
Is this a Zotero or a Word problem?
thanks
Don
  • Zotero isn't aware of chapter boundaries. The simplest solution is to place the chapters in separate documents.
  • MS Word controls whether numbering starts from 1 with each new chapter. Zotero controls whether a citation is the first or not the first in the document. But Zotero cannot detect if it is the first in the document section? Is that what I'm being told.
    For many and good reasons I want to work with my book MS as one whole document. This makes everything else work better.
    I'm sure I'm not alone with this problem. Can't Zotero be improved to recognize section breaks and start citations over?
    I'm using Chicago Style Full Note, I should add.
  • MS Word controls whether numbering starts from 1 with each new chapter. Zotero controls whether a citation is the first or not the first in the document. But Zotero cannot detect if it is the first in the document section?
    yes.
    Can't Zotero be improved to recognize section breaks and start citations over?
    not easily, no.
  • For many and good reasons I want to work with my book MS as one whole document. This makes everything else work better.
    You can edit the document as a unit, split it into chapters at the final stage, do a refresh to correct the citations, and then splice the chapters back together.
  • Thanks. I will most likely keep my book all in one document, which solves so many other editing problems, and will work around the problem of first citations in new chapters with manual entries.
  • (depending on your set-up - i.e. especially, but not only, if you're using Word for Mac - you'll also run into performance/speed issues with book-length documents and Zotero).
  • I notice it is slower than with small documents when inserting citations, but I have a big desktop PC with lots of RAM and it seems to work without problems. The file is 526kb and contains about 103k words, so this is a big document. But I'm at the stage of revision and editing that I need to work with one, not ten files, to get things right.
    Thanks for your support. Zotero in the end makes all of this much easier. The work around solution will not be too difficult I don't believe.
  • I am still working with chapters all combined in one large document for convenience in editing. At some point closer to publication, in order to solve the problem of needing full citations for sources needed I will want to break down the chapters into separate files.
    Then ... here is where I want help ... click on the first endnote and then click on the "refresh" icon.
    Tell me exactly what does refresh do? Does it mean that it resyncs all zotero entries with those in the Word document?
    Those links are not going to be upset by my breaking down the book document into chapters I assume?

    Another step, before going to press, will be to strip out the Zotero coding. There I assume I would want to save the one with the Zotero links under a different name, then in Word click on the "remove codes" Will that remove all codes for all citations? Do I need to go through these one by one?

    After doing that, I can put my chapters back together in one book document.

    Any advice on shortcuts or dangers in this process are most welcome.
    --Don
  • Tell me exactly what does refresh do? Does it mean that it resyncs all zotero entries with those in the Word document?
    Those links are not going to be upset by my breaking down the book document into chapters I assume?
    correct. I assume that you will copy/cut each chapter and paste it into a new Word document. For each new Word document, make sure to first select a citation style (either by inserting a dummy citation or by using "set document preferences" - then paste your chapter into the documnt.
    Another step, before going to press, will be to strip out the Zotero coding. There I assume I would want to save the one with the Zotero links under a different name, then in Word click on the "remove codes" Will that remove all codes for all citations? Do I need to go through these one by one?
    again, exactly right. Save the document under a different name before removing field codes. Then click the button once (for each chapter) and it will remove all field codes for all citations in that chapter.

    I see no better way to do this and wouldn't expect any problems doing this as you describe.
  • This actually does not work well because it breaks the bibliography and TOC creation processes. The only way to really do this is ...

    1. Build your bibliography, etc.
    1. Save one copy of the doc for each chapter, where the first chapter file includes the TOC, and the last includes the "correct" bibliography
    2. Remove the "other" chapters in each separate doc
    3. Refresh citations in each doc

    Now you have two options ...

    4. print to PDF
    5. Combine the files in PDF

    OR

    4. Disconnect the zotero fields from each document
    5. Recombine the files

    If you don't disconnect the zotero fields, any further changes in any footnotes, references, etc., will cause zotero to go back and "refresh" the entire document, messing up the first references once again.

    As for editing things in separate documents -- this really is NOT as easy as the folks here make out. When you're working through a process with an editor, they will want to see the "final document" combined. If they find a single error in any zotero formatted footnote, that error must be fixed in the ENTIRE document... which either means search/replace because you've disconnected the fields (the only way to stop zotero from messing the document up in later revisions), or pulling the entire document apart, fixing the problem in every document, and then putting them all back together again.

    Zotero really NEEDS a lot more intelligence here and in other places ...
  • @riw77 Please don’t spam multiple threads with the same comments.

    It’s really not as complicated as you make it out to be. You can easily create a combined PDF without printing to PDFs. Just select the Word documents And use Adobe’s combine PDFs function.

    If you need an editable combined copy, keep a copy of the chapters with live citations and copy from there if you are later looking to update citations.
  • I actually just tried this again because I'm working on my dissertation ... First, my dissertation must be turned in, in Word format, so the PDF option will not work. Second, it IS much more complicated than you make out.

    I split my single file into multiple files, and refreshed, and Zotero removed all the bibliography entries that aren't part of the single chapter file. I combine the files together, refresh the bibliography, and Zotero removes all the first chapter full references.

    So no, the methods outlined in this thread do not work ... Because you cannot get a full bibliography AND the full citation at the beginning of each chapter in Word format in any way that I can see. You MUST disconnect the Zotero fields from the footnotes to make this work, eliminating any future use of Zotero for edits.
  • So... in the end, the only way I can see to solve this is ...

    1. Combine the files, refresh
    2. Make a copy of the file, disconnect the fields from Zotero, delete everything from this file but the bibliography
    3. Save separate copies for each chapter, leaving any front matter in the same file as the first chapter
    4. Open each chapter file, delete "other" text, refresh Zotero, disconnect from Zotero fields
    5. Recombine the files.
    6. Fix the page numbering, etc.

    I don't see how anyone thinks this is "simple" or "easy..." I know it would be hard to make Zotero pay attention to section breaks in Word ... But maybe there is some other way, like just having an option to "restart full citations after this one" in Zotero, so the feature doesn't interact with Word in any way.
  • edited September 4, 2020
    Happy to help you if you want to have a polite conversation, but your combative tone is quite demotivating. https://www.zotero.org/support/forum_guidelines#etiquette

    If you want to have a productive conversation, please start a new thread concisely describing the problem you are having, without the “this program is useless” hyperbole.
  • edited September 4, 2020
    Please point out where I said "this program is useless." I did precisely describe the set of problems, the only solution I can figure out that works, and I made a very specific suggestion on how to fix it that works around the other solutions proposed in the thread that -- understandably -- will not work.

    Pointing me at the forum rules and putting things in my mouth that I never said isn't all that useful, either.
  • I don't think there's really a misunderstanding here. I think what you describe is the indeed the only way to do what you want. "Easy" is a relative term, though.
    I'd say 10mins is a generous estimate for these steps, which is only needed by a relatively small subset of Zotero users (those writing footnoted manuscripts that need to effectively reset with every chapter) and those people need to do this maybe 3, max 5 times for every book-length manuscript, so maybe ever 3-5 years.

    That seems entirely acceptable to me compared to adding a feature that would require not just development but also documentation, maintenance, and, importantly would complicate troubleshooting and thus user experience for a lot of other Zotero users. You're free to disagree, but I don't think you're going to convince anyone and should plan accordingly (whether that's budgeting the time or searching for a tool you like better is up to you).
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