Footnote vs Bibliography

I'm new, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to get zotero to give me a footnote rather then a bibliographic reference. I use Turabian and (I think like many styles), the bibliography is different then the footnote.

Can anyone explain this to me? The drag and drop doesn't do it. The plug-in doesn't work. ??
  • edited April 15, 2009
    1. Drag and drop will always give you a bibliographic reference, not the citation. You can use the keyboard shortcut to copy the citation to your clipboard. See keyboard shortcuts.

    2. If you're using the Word plugin the insert citation button should give you the citation format for the style. If you don't like what the Turabian footnotes look like try using the Chicago note with bibliography style. It may well be what you're looking for.
  • You can use the keyboard shortcut to copy the citation to your clipboard
    Or hold down Shift before you start the drag.
  • Before the OP actually follows any particular suggestion, it'd help for the clarify what they actually want, since it's not clear.
  • I've got the same problem I want to see my citations as footnotes rather than a bibliography. I don't want copy paste citation information into a footnote but the real deal self number sort of thing. In all my style options the footnote/endnote option is grayed out.
  • it shouldn't be grayed out for all - just for "Author-Date" citations (i.e. where the work is cited as (Marx 1848) in the text.)

    Try using Chicago Manual of Style (Full Note with Bibliography)
    if that has grayed out FN and EN option let us know.
  • edited May 8, 2009
    Thanks my mistake. I tried a bunch and I was surprised that nothing was coming giving the option but now I see that note~footnote. I was hoping to find an American Chemical Society format that allowed the user format their citations as they appear in "publication" (footnote) as well as how they appear in "manuscript" (bibliography) format. Looks like I'm going to have to learn how to modify a CSL file. Actually is there a straight for bit of script to add to add to a CSL bibliography to make it a footnote CSL. Thanks.
  • if I understand you correctly that should be very easy and not involve much learning.

    see here for general instructions:
    http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/5104/modifying-word-plugin-using-journal-abbreviation-instead-of-publication-name/#Item_2

    What you want to do is to change the line, one of the first in the csl that reads something like
    <style xmlns="http://purl.org/net/xbiblio/csl" class="in-text" xml:lang="en">

    to
    <style xmlns="http://purl.org/net/xbiblio/csl" class="note" xml:lang="en">

    i.e. only change the value of 'class'.

    Please make sure to read and follow the instructions in the first link, though.
  • Thanks this gets me started editing. Based on the "in-text" to "note" modification it simple drops my super script citation record into a footnote, even if its a collection citations. Its a step closer and I think I should be able to figure it out. What I need to do is make sure that every citation gets its own footnote and the formatted reference material goes into the footnote. I'll have to look at some other CSL files to understand how they handle this.
  • I hope I'm not supposed to understand this ;-).
    If you want help, try to be both clearer and more specific. Otherwise enjoy toying with csl, which can actually be quite entertaining.

    If what you want is a citation style that does both in-text _and_ footnotes, depending on the nature of the citation, that's not something csl does (nor is it something I have every seen anywhere).
  • edited May 8, 2009
    Ok I think this is an issue of terms.

    (A) the reference data
    (B) the number or letter inserted into the text
    (C) the formatted text that is supposed to go into a footnote or biblography

    After I changed "in-line" to "note" when I inserted a reference into a document it created a regular footnote and placed (B) within that footnote. What I wish to happen when a reference is inserted is for (B) to be placed in the text and (C) to be placed in a corresponding footnote. Sorry about this the language regarding this stuff is super confusing. If you have an easy fix I'll take, otherwise thanks.

    Aaron
  • edited May 8, 2009
    ah sure, yes -
    I overlooked that, sorry.
    Look towards the end of your citation style
    there is a section that starts with
    <citation>

    and one that starts with

    <bibliography>
    basically, you want to take the
    information in the that latter section and put it into the former -

    you can't obviously cut and paste the entire section - much of the 'option' stuff is unique to bibliography or citation (e.g. entry spacing doesn't make much sense for citation), so basically start where it says:
    <text macro="author" suffix=" "/>

    and then do c&p - you may still have to play around a little, but that should basically do it.
    I'd suggest using the Chicago Style as a reference for comparison, it's the best footnote style in Zotero (and the most common one generally speaking)
  • That's really close to what I'm looking for but now I see why folks use bibliographies when working on manuscripts. I was really hoping that numbering (A) would be handled the same way as it is with a bibliography but I see that hasn't been done for any of these formats. Each time an (A) is added its a new footnote. Thanks a lot for the help and any work you've done on Zotero.
  • OK, finally I get it - no, I don't think that's possible.
    Why would you want that?
    Footnotes are always numbered consecutively, for good reason (that's also a word/Ooo setting that I wouldn't know how to change).

    If this is just for keeping track of cited literature while writing, while not write in one style (e.g. Chicago) and then switch to another style when you are done?

    If this is actually required by anyone reasonably important (i.e. journal or department), please post a link to the requirement.
  • edited May 8, 2009
    That is how the references are handled in the published versions of full articles in the Journal of America Chemical Society (JACS) and a variety of other ACS publications. But the Journal handles the process of taking a manuscript to the published form; author just submit manuscripts with bibliographies.

    In "proposals" I've written I've imitated the JACS format to make it look "professional" and to do so I cited everything by hand. Every time I wanted to refer to an earlier footnote I would add a superscript number. I don't think there is a major market for this format, but thanks for all your help in exploring the system.
  • edited May 8, 2009
    Edit: Okay, just saw it now. They have communications and articles differently.
    That's very strange indeed. As I say below - I think if it's done in a major Journal Zotero should be able to do it - but I'm not so clear about a possible way of implementing this.

    ------
    (old post read): hmm - now I'm confused again. I just looked at JACS and it doesn't have footnotes
    just a regular numbered bibliography - titled "References" at the end,
    e.g. here:
    DOI: 10.1021/ja9009088
    that's exactly what the csl style of the same name does.

    I would be inclined to say if a major journal does something than Zotero should do its best to support it - but here I just don't see the journal citing in the way you say it does.
  • edited May 8, 2009
    The beginning of each issue features abbreviate reports called "communications" which is what you pulled. In other chemistry journals they are called "letters". In the issue you picked you have to go to page 5769 to hit a full "journal" article. That's why I specified "full article" earlier, but I can understand how that would be easily missed.

    DOI:10.1021/ja806578y

    In this article citation 11 is the first one to behave as I described. Personally I know that "Inorganic Chemistry" and "Organometallics" follow this format.

    DOI:10.1021/ic061740x
    DOI:10.1021/om070143v

    I hope that helps.
  • What is the status on this subject?
    1) I see the American Chemical Society (ACS) style still does not support footnotes, as required by, e.g., Organic Letters (see http://pubs.acs.org/toc/orlef7/13/1 for examples).
    2) If you look at articles published by ACS, you will notice that some footnotes contain multiple references (denoted a, b, c... etc.). If there is a way to do this with Zotero, I haven't found it...
  • there is no news on this - the csl people are aware of this as an issue and at least 2) is going to be implemented at some point (but that's not in the near future. 1) I still don't see how to do. How does one even do that manually?
  • Now I am confused. Some of the other styles (e.g. some of the Chicago manual styles) allow (1).
  • edited April 13, 2011
    I'm referring to this part:
    In "proposals" I've written I've imitated the JACS format to make it look "professional" and to do so I cited everything by hand. Every time I wanted to refer to an earlier footnote I would add a superscript number. I don't think there is a major market for this format, but thanks for all your help in exploring the system.
    i.e. that the same reference, cited later, will point to the same FN. I have an answer now on how to do that manually, but strong doubts that will happen in Zotero. Just putting AcS in FNs wouldn't be a problem, but no one ever did because of these issues.
  • Thanks for the clarification.
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