Upgrade StorageZotero Mis-Numbering Bibliographies (AOO, Master Doc)
Hi. Like it says, the numbers are wrong.
rebuilding everything about 4 times makes no difference. Using AOO 4.1.2 on a PC with latest Z. standalone and a db of a couple of thousand records.
Got a Master doc with about 6 sub-docs. Have been though them all and there are no mis-cited or corrupt thingies. Looks clean, no cites inside tables etc.
As I type, I will do it - another rebuild. This time, I will save my subs twice - (1) as per usual, and (2) with a different filename but end-of-chapter biblo.
Then I'm going to build a Master and add a whole-document bibliography at the end. Here goes.
1. fire up Z... ok
2. fire up AOO Master doc... slow... come alive and no upsets
3. deleted old Refs (I like to run a clean ship. BTW when adding a new bib, the next section header gets stomped on. Dunno why.
4. Insert bib!... running.. done it. I like the bib text inside a table, so selecting everything, Table-Convert-Text to Table - fire! get a table. Select all, take away borders, now I can align stuff. Great. Save the Master.
5.Checking subs for "[" #1 has none, #2 has some. Add a Bib at chapter end (each file is s chapter). Nice clean build. Save with different name.
Same with next and next.
Sensibility check: Master says there are 102 cites, the subs say 10+90+12+2= 114 ..well, perhaps some multi-cites.
But let's compare:
Well, 1st 10 the same. Next... sub-doc... looks good, but I'll not check all. Hows about the in-doc citations vs. the bibliography?
Let's try [11] which is about the outlook for EV batteries in the output .pdf....
Whoops, the Master doc bibliography says its a publication from Her Majesties Government about Carbon Budgets and CO2.
Alas, the cite marked [11] in Chapter 2 IS about batteries. So, we have it clear.
The bibliography is numbering up in sequence OK, but the in-doc cites are getting the number from their sub-chapter (which always restart from 1) NOT from the Master and how far it as progressed in it's count.
Restated, the Master should have bumped that [NN] number up to say 21? Because there where 10 before? Oh look, the Master bibliography [21] cites the work of Chan about batteries.
Why is this? How to fix it?
By the way, I've a few days to go before I hand this thesis in. Looks like a fail............, well, it's only 3 years work on a doctorate. I'm sure they'll understand.
And That Is Not A Joke
rebuilding everything about 4 times makes no difference. Using AOO 4.1.2 on a PC with latest Z. standalone and a db of a couple of thousand records.
Got a Master doc with about 6 sub-docs. Have been though them all and there are no mis-cited or corrupt thingies. Looks clean, no cites inside tables etc.
As I type, I will do it - another rebuild. This time, I will save my subs twice - (1) as per usual, and (2) with a different filename but end-of-chapter biblo.
Then I'm going to build a Master and add a whole-document bibliography at the end. Here goes.
1. fire up Z... ok
2. fire up AOO Master doc... slow... come alive and no upsets
3. deleted old Refs (I like to run a clean ship. BTW when adding a new bib, the next section header gets stomped on. Dunno why.
4. Insert bib!... running.. done it. I like the bib text inside a table, so selecting everything, Table-Convert-Text to Table - fire! get a table. Select all, take away borders, now I can align stuff. Great. Save the Master.
5.Checking subs for "[" #1 has none, #2 has some. Add a Bib at chapter end (each file is s chapter). Nice clean build. Save with different name.
Same with next and next.
Sensibility check: Master says there are 102 cites, the subs say 10+90+12+2= 114 ..well, perhaps some multi-cites.
But let's compare:
Well, 1st 10 the same. Next... sub-doc... looks good, but I'll not check all. Hows about the in-doc citations vs. the bibliography?
Let's try [11] which is about the outlook for EV batteries in the output .pdf....
Whoops, the Master doc bibliography says its a publication from Her Majesties Government about Carbon Budgets and CO2.
Alas, the cite marked [11] in Chapter 2 IS about batteries. So, we have it clear.
The bibliography is numbering up in sequence OK, but the in-doc cites are getting the number from their sub-chapter (which always restart from 1) NOT from the Master and how far it as progressed in it's count.
Restated, the Master should have bumped that [NN] number up to say 21? Because there where 10 before? Oh look, the Master bibliography [21] cites the work of Chan about batteries.
Why is this? How to fix it?
By the way, I've a few days to go before I hand this thesis in. Looks like a fail............, well, it's only 3 years work on a doctorate. I'm sure they'll understand.
And That Is Not A Joke
(It will really help to cut any sarcasm and just describe what's going wrong as clearly and simply as possible.)
...your suggestion is what I described... I think. I'm keeping the doc split into sub-chapters as big documents have major issues esp. in Word. That's why I'm using OpenOffice - it can split docs and it comes out OK.
However over many years and trying everything to hand (except Scrivener, which I've avoided as it can't mix a landscape page in) - I have discover NONE of the major offerings actually work.
That's why I have been checking ahead of the final, because this is something just begging to get egg-on-face.
Ho hum.
I put hand-coded tags in after each reference (a method born of hard experience) just to rescue and hand-create a bibliography.
But before I blow two days of re-creating the entire citation system by hand, I'll try putting the bibs in at the end of each chapter. That'll raise some eyebrows, but should (??) be OK. Hopefully...
all good fun :|
When I wrote my doctoral thesis I
1) worked on several chapters as separate files using open office;
2) inserted reference marks using Zotero
3) When I needed to turn the paper in for a review or for my own use, I;
4) While keeping each chapter as individual files, copied/pasted the chapters to a new document
5) With the new combined document I generated the bibliography.
Just gone to "refs at end of chapters" and it seems to be working OK.
Now got several "[11]" in final .pdf - and they all ref the right documents!
Will bear yr comments... but can report the new mode seems to work.
Thanxs all
If you want to write down the details steps/settings you used to get it working, I think that would help future users who want to use the Master Document function.
I do have comments (hopefully constructive) about use of Zotero (...my experience is with Standalone, don't know how this effects other versions).
I recommend, so to improve usability with AOO Master docs, the following
1) in the Classic Add/Edit citation window, please add:
Start citation number from:
2) On the same form, have the ability (this might already be the case...) to make prefix and postfix persistent. A check box perhaps?
Why do these?
(1) allows people writing chapters (sub-documents to a Master) to cause the present chapter to cite with numbers from where the prior chapter left off i.e. chapter 1 had 68 entries, so the value entered would be 69.
Unfortunately this would need to dynamically update all following cite values inserted, which might be a problem.
Benefit: Now you can add a whole-document bibliography at the end of a Master doc and the numbers should be right; all that was ever going wrong before was that the in-chapter numbers always started from 1 not one on from the prior-chapter value.
(2) is about in-chapter numbering. I would intend this feature to persist even when in quick-cite mode.
Suppose you are collecting citations per chapter and placing them at the chapter end (as I got working OK). Now you could prefix by chapter number e.g. "[2." for chapter 2, and postfix by "]".
Your citations would now come out [2.1] [2.2] automagically. Of course the bibliography would show this too.
Benefit: Chapter citing now looks smart and includes the chapter number
[2.1] abc
[2.2] xyz
...
[2.63] etc etc.
I don't anticipate using both together.
Comments?
brodders
Your requested features for persistent affixes and numbering start-at values are interesting and definitely worth considering!
So I set up a Master doc in AOO using an academic template (a GPL one from Gerald Leppert) which I adjusted a bit to suit my Uni.
Link: http://templates.openoffice.org/en/template/template-bachelor-thesis-master-thesis
Put in some pre- and post-amble stuff into the Master doc (TOC, lists of figures etc. at front; Appendices at end. Now dropped Chapters 1..4 into the Master as sub-docs.
Basically this was completely smooth, except the Chapter cite numbers were wrong. Seems like each Chapter cites from 1, but if you include a Bibliography at the end of the Master it re-numbers all the references number from 1 and up; which means the numbers loose synch from Chapter 2.
So I put the Zotero Bibliography at the end of each Chapter and it was fine.
Had some odd problems with stuff-in-tables (AOO has OK but not perfect table support) but once worked around that - it was easy.
Working method is to: Edit Chapters and save them. Now go to Master Doc and use Tools > Update > Update All (I maDe a button the on the bar to use) and AOO rebuilds all the chapters and the TOC etc. into a new Master. Save that, export it as a .pdf and that's it.
I'd give AOO 8/10 and Word 6.5 / 10 ... for big documents. The trouble with Word is that once documents become complex and big + lots of graphs and pictures, it "loose it". On-screen and printed pagination diverge; replacing a comma with a full-stop results in random chaos like one edge of a table boundary changing transparency, or moving to another page, or blank pages. Everyone I've spoken to has met this in Word.
AOO does not do this; it's a bit around the houses and slightly clunky but it is (tables aside) rational and you stay in control; it does what it says on the side of the tin. But with Word you have no choice but to keep printing it out to see what the heck it's done now. And as hand-in time presses on you, it gets really stressful when the work is done but Word can't print something sensible without throwing 16 blank pages in the last chapter at random or whatever it makes up.
AOO + Zotero coming along nicely tho!
:)
Z includes a lot of text into the doc; when hovering the mouse pointer over an in-document cite you get a tool-tips display - which looks like it includes EVERYTHING and just width across my screen - unreadable!
It would be nice if the data shown was selectable - is that Z or AOO though? If Z, I'd like to be able to make it just show a unique document ID as cite tool-tip.
...a doc ID which can be searched for in the man Z window?
:)
With @bwiernik, I think the idea of settings for a prefix (i.e. chapter number) and starting note number is interesting. With a bit of work, the citation processor (citeproc-js, my end of things) could be modified to handle those settings; but the user interface and other details are a harder task, and whether to introduce the feature would be a call for the main project (Zotero).