Error when creating web page - Report ID 79581571

betagramma
Sorry - not sure what category this should go into... Several times today I've tried to create a web page entry from a site, and the process freezes half way through. I generated a report ID numbered 79581571, so you should be able to track me through there.

The steps I take to get this error are simply
1. Find a page I like
2. If there is not a web-page icon in the address bar, I "ctrl-shift-z" to open Zotero pane within Firefox
3. I click the "create web page" icon from within there - and that's when it freezes.
4. I have no option but to close Firefox completely and reboot to get it going again.

I have had one occasion when creating from the address bar, and that worked fine, if I remember correctly.

Thanks,
Martin
  • adamsmith
    unless this is the case for every webpage you try, we'd want a URL of a page where this fails.
  • dstillman
    edited April 29, 2014
    From the looks of it, this doesn't have anything to do with saving — you're getting an error during a WebDAV sync–related operation that's causing Zotero to crash.

    This is most likely a problem with your WebDAV server, but we can take a look. Try verifying your WebDAV server from the Sync pane of the Zotero preferences and seeing if it still passes. If not, provide a Debug ID for a Verify Server attempt and I can provide more details.
  • dstillman
    Unexpected href '/zotero/storage/' in Zotero.Sync.Storage.purgeOrphanedStorageFiles()
    Actually, this is bizarre. There shouldn't be a 'storage' folder on your WebDAV server — did you create a symlink on your server or something odd like that? Zotero's WebDAV files should always be in a 'zotero' directory. Only the local client should have a 'storage' directory.
  • betagramma
    Many thanks for your responses... I've been very busy, so no time to reply until now.

    OH - When I set up the whole thing, I copied my entire folder structure from my Firefox profiles into the WebDAV target folder, thinking that was where zotero would take it's lead from... so that's why there's a storage folder. So I guess I somehow need to clean that up??? The folders in the zotero main folder are as follows:

    1. locate

    2. pipes

    3. storage

    4. styles

    5. translators

    One more thing - should I change the target on the two other laptops that are accessing the groups (they are my colleagues) so they are pointing to the WebDAV location also? They will quickly reach a limit on their local machines if they download too many of the files (we are testing Zotero as our main file retrieval as well as general research tool).

    Many thanks again for your help...
  • dstillman
    Just delete everything in that WebDAV folder except for any [8-characters].zip and [8-characters].prop files and a lastsync.txt file, if those are present. The WebDAV folder is totally separate from your local Zotero data directory. Zotero does everything for you once you've entered your WebDAV username and password.
    One more thing - should I change the target on the two other laptops that are accessing the groups (they are my colleagues) so they are pointing to the WebDAV location also?
    I don't really know what you mean here, but WebDAV isn't used for group file syncing.
  • betagramma
    Two other people are working on building the same repo for me... We are using groups to do that. But I want their storage to be on my NAS so when they exceed 300mb we don't have to pay for storage for them. What's the best way to do that?
  • adamsmith
    you can't really, sorry. While there are several ways to not use Zotero Storage and still sync your files for personal libraries, Zotero Storage is currently (and in the near future) the only way to sync files for groups.
  • betagramma
    So all users who use groups and want full access to files (especially external groups where they cannot closely cooperate with each other) have to pay for zotero storage at some point.

    Can I use their home directory on my NAS to store their version of the files?

    Can I give the other people my login, and we all use the same account?

    Sorry to trouble you... We have the NAS exactly for this reason... to save us from paying storage to several accounts as well as for offline storage for our backups.

    Thanks!
  • adamsmith
    So all users who use groups and want full access to files (especially external groups where they cannot closely cooperate with each other) have to pay for zotero storage at some point.
    that's correct. Note that paid storage subscription are the only source of funding for general Zotero support and development (grants only fund specific projects) and Zotero storage pricing, especially for groups, is way below that of competing software.
    Can I use their home directory on my NAS to store their version of the files?
    sorry, I don't understand, but probably the answer is no. The problem aren't the files, the problem is the database.
    Can I give the other people my login, and we all use the same account?
    yes, that would work. But you'd still want to make sure to not have the Zotero database on your network drive. The respective databases will be local and synced (for free) via zotero.org, the files will sync via webDAV set-up on your NAS.
  • dstillman
    In terms of future solutions, now that Zotero supports relative paths for linked files (via a base directory), we're planning to allow linked files in groups, but it will take some work to implement (e.g., to allow choosing a different base directory for different libraries). Relative path support was initially implemented by someone in the community, and we'd welcome a patch for this too.

    That would of course limit you to linked files. Supporting WebDAV in groups could happen someday (and would be easier to implement after the sync architecture changes in the next major version), but that's certainly farther out, and is also most likely to happen as a result of community contributions.
  • betagramma
    I'm not actually trying to avoid paying for storage... just to avoid paying several times for the same thing... BUT I'll admit that at US10 p.m. unlimited - it's cheap. But with 5 people all accessing the same repo, if they all download the whole file structure to their local machines for offline access, which in turn sync back to their own accounts, it starts to get more painful, no?

    I am thinking of moving my entire library of teaching materials into it - is that smart or not (please advise)? So I am just experimenting at the moment. When I decide to commit to Zotero fully then I will seriously consider the best way to resolve this matter. AND I would willingly contribute to Zotero if there was another way to do so...

    ...btw - I set the link for my colleague to WebDAV/homes/user/zotero so they can sync files in their home directory of my NAS - it's similar to a Windows file structure in that way. This creates duplicate files, which is not satisfactory, but they only download from the groups folder what they really need. The rest they view directly from the NAS via the WebDAV route.

    I have put my database folder into C://usrs/user/zotero coz I find it easier that way... This is what you are referring to, yes?

    I do think Zotero is a GREAT offering... so assuming all goes well, I'm in!

    Many thanks again!
  • aurimas
    For whatever reason everyone is missing the point that you only pay for one person to host the library. No one else who joins your group needs to worry about storage
  • betagramma
    edited April 30, 2014
    If that's true then great...

    If they select the option to auto-download files from a group library for offline access, then they in turn will be "hosting" a 2nd copy, no?

    If they do NOT download files, they can see them online without downloading them - ok?

    When they add their local files from their own research, will those files go into their own storage? Or SOLELY into the group repo online?

    Thanks.

    p.s. - if anyone's watching closely... I guess this last part of the discussion should be hived off to a new thread about syncing/storage?
  • aurimas
    If they select the option to auto-download files from a group library for offline access, then they in turn will be "hosting" a 2nd copy, no?
    No. Hosting only refers to files on zotero.org. All the syncing is still done with a single copy of the library (on zotero.org) that belongs to and is paid by the owner of the library.
    When they add their local files from their own research, will those files go into their own storage? Or SOLELY into the group repo online?
    If they add the new files to the group library, then the files will sync to the group library and will count towards the storage quota of the group library's owner. If they add files to their personal libraries (i.e. "My Library") and sync to zotero.org, the storage will count towards their personal account.
  • betagramma
    That's very cool...
  • adamsmith
    If they select the option to auto-download files from a group library for offline access, then they in turn will be "hosting" a 2nd copy, no?

    If they do NOT download files, they can see them online without downloading them - ok?
    if your concern is with storage costs then see what aurimas says above. Since that second copy is local, no one is paying for it.

    But it is true that if you have five members in a group that all sync, you'll have six copies of every file with default settings (one on each user's local HD, one on the Zotero server). So that could be a concern. If that's a concern, though, you can set syncing to "On Demand" so that files are only downloaded when needed.
  • dstillman
    edited April 30, 2014
    For whatever reason everyone is missing the point that you only pay for one person to host the library.
    I suspect because Dropbox counts the storage against all users. But we do clarify this right on the storage page.
  • betagramma
    That's very cool.

    Hi Adam - what would the concern be tho' - just lots of files hanging around? Or maybe version management if they start to edit the files?

    Not that I'm doubting of course, but I'm just testing that theory about double-paying... I just...
    • changed the settings on my laptop to make sure nothing would be downloaded without my request
    • copied then deleted the contents of my storage folder on my local laptop
    • sync'd
    Of course, nothing was downloaded... So I'm good with that overall idea, and getting closer to becoming a paying user already.
  • adamsmith
    just lots of files hanging around?
    pretty much just that. Local HD space. I don't think that's usually an issue today, but I thought I'd mention it.

    Version management shouldn't be an issue, sync is smart about that (though note that Zotero storage does _not_ do version control. It just saves the most recent version of a file. But again, this is typically not an issue for article PDFs.
  • adamsmith
    @Dan - maybe add an example somewhere? This is the 2nd thread _today_ where people have misunderstand how this works. If this is just an assumption based on Dropbox, we can't do anything of course, though.
  • dstillman
    edited April 30, 2014
    copied then deleted the contents of my storage folder on my local laptop
    Before you delete that folder for good, you might want to put it back and do a Reset File Sync History from the Sync -> Reset pane and sync one more time. (Do not use the other reset options.) It shouldn't be necessary to reset file sync history unless you delete files on the server, but it's a good idea before you delete local files permanently.
  • betagramma
    Hi Dan,
    Zotero File Storage is not intended as a media backup solution nor as a generalized file-sharing service.
    I'm not planning to use Zotero for my whole file store, but I would like to use it to share teaching resources among my colleagues and I as well as links to research on teaching generally... So, when they say "unlimted", what does that really mean? And is my intended use within the service aim of Zotero?
  • betagramma
    OK - That's done... Thanks Dan.
  • betagramma
    Hi Adam - I did read the group storage comments prior to install, but I didn't read it twice, and obviously didn't try to fully understand the implications... so some flashing lights might be good.

    And that's twice I've read now about (accidentally?) deleting files from the server... These can be restored? Where does it say that in the faq?
  • adamsmith
    share teaching resources among my colleagues and I as well as links to research on teaching generally... So, when they say "unlimted", what does that really mean?
    I don't speak for Zotero, but my understanding is that if you're using Zotero for academic purposes in the broadest sense you're well within its intended usage and "unlimited" means "unlimited" (as you may know, it replaced the 25GB category, so surely it's expected that some people will use more than 25GB.).
    What I think Zotero would be unhappy about is if its services were to be used for hosting a massive MP3 collection or to circulate movies among friends, for example.
    And that's twice I've read now about (accidentally?) deleting files from the server... These can be restored? Where does it say that in the faq?
    no, you can't do that accidentally. The only way to delete files or items in Zotero is to click on "move to trash" and confirm. By default, files and items remain in the trash for 30 days and can be restored easily by yourself. After that, they're gone.
  • betagramma
    Thanks a lot Adam... For sure I wouldn't stress out the Zotero servers with media... My own set-up is designed to manage that.
  • mateolan
    Supporting WebDAV in groups could happen someday (and would be easier to implement after the sync architecture changes in the next major version), but that's certainly farther out, and is also most likely to happen as a result of community contributions.
    This is great news. I already have an academic WebDav infrastructure and very much enjoy many features of Zotero. Count me in when you are ready to architect new WebDAV group sharing and concomitant API.

    I realize that this represents a potential loss of revenue for Zotero--and clearly it will mean a slight re-thinking of your business model--but it is absolutely the right thing to do.
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